Help please - CCJ & Debt Recovery – from unknown Parking fine

Jack5656

I need help and advice please.

Yesterday I received a Notice of Debt Recovery from DCBL advising they will collect £348 on behalf of Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) and that if I don’t pay in 14 days (from date on letter) extra costs will be added.

I have had no notification of any debt or charge prior to this!!

I spoke to the legal team of my Employee Assistance Programme (at work) who advised me to contact CEL & DCBL and ask for evidence/details as I didn’t even have a PCN never mind the CCJ or evidence of the fine.

I can't appeal online to CEL as I need a PCN but never had one (as never knew anything about this until I assume DCBL traced my current address). But it looks way too late to appeal anyway.

I signed up to get a credit rating yesterday and found a CCJ for this £348 from November 2018 lodged against an address I left in 2017! Never knew a thing about this! This is incredibly stressful as I always pay any bill on time!

I spoke to CEL this morning and they gave me 3 options:

1) Pay £348 to DCBL but CCJ sits on my record (as satisfied??)

2) Ask for consent to set aside the CCJ – basically pay £108 extra for that and also the £348 fine and judge will (remotely) agree on most occasions to set the CCJ aside.

3) Apply to court for hearing = £275 and I may get that back if successful and maybe have my fine reduced but could also mean I lose case and pay £348 and £275 and stuck with CCJ on record?

It seems the fine happened from being in a car park in January 2018 when my partner stayed in car while I went into a shop quickly so didn’t we get a ticket. We had moved house 2 weeks before and although I updated DVLA for my driver’s licence I can’t recall if I updated the V5 so that is probably why the letter / court docs went to an old address as that is the address DVLA gave CEL.

My question is do I have a good chance of winning if I pay £275 and apply to court, or is it 50/50 or less I could win? If I could lose based on details of what happened above I may be better off to pay the consent to remove CCJ (option 2) as my credit rating has suffered badly and need to remortgage soon.

 

 

Coupon-mad

We win these every time.  And we do them all the time here!

it is not a fine!  It won't be reduced, you will get the CCJ set aside (hopefully fee paid by CEL for unreasonably failing to trace you before filing a claim) and then you will win v the PCN (or the Judge might dismiss the whole claim anyway!).

Search the forum for CCJ 4 months dead or 'CCJ Boxwood' and copy what we've done before.  Easy.

This is what you do:

3.  Apply to court for hearing = £275 and I may get that back if successful and maybe have my fine reduced



but could also mean I lose case and pay £348 and £275 and stuck with CCJ on record?

ANSWER:
Technically possible but pretty much unheard of with our advice.

Jack5656

Coupon-mad said:

We win these every time.  And we do them all the time here!

it is not a fine!  It won't be reduced, you will get the CCJ set aside (hopefully fee paid by CEL for unreasonably failing to trace you before filing a claim) and then you will win v the PCN (or the Judge might dismiss the whole claim anyway!).

Search the forum for CCJ 4 months dead or 'CCJ Boxwood' and copy what we've done before.  Easy.

This is what you do:

3.  Apply to court for hearing = £275 and I may get that back if successful and maybe have my fine reduced



but could also mean I lose case and pay £348 and £275 and stuck with CCJ on record?

ANSWER:
Technically possible but pretty much unheard of with our advice.

OK thank you very much - I just need the confidence from your experience to make sure it is worth my while fighting this.

Techinically I did not pay for a ticket when I should have done so the judge may still think I should pay a fine - even if reduced? Would I get the £275 back in that scenario?

patient_dream

Jack5656 said:

Coupon-mad said:

We win these every time.  And we do them all the time here!

it is not a fine!  It won't be reduced, you will get the CCJ set aside (hopefully fee paid by CEL for unreasonably failing to trace you before filing a claim) and then you will win v the PCN (or the Judge might dismiss the whole claim anyway!).

Search the forum for CCJ 4 months dead or 'CCJ Boxwood' and copy what we've done before.  Easy.

This is what you do:

3.  Apply to court for hearing = £275 and I may get that back if successful and maybe have my fine reduced



but could also mean I lose case and pay £348 and £275 and stuck with CCJ on record?

ANSWER:
Technically possible but pretty much unheard of with our advice.

OK thank you very much - I just need the confidence from your experience to make sure it is worth my while fighting this.

Techinically I did not pay for a ticket when I should have done so the judge may still think I should pay a fine - even if reduced? Would I get the £275 back in that scenario?

The point is if you pay the £348, it will be shown as settled but it will still remain and that could be an issue for creditors who do not undertand the scam parking industry

All depends if in the future you want credit or something that will mean your credit is looked at.

CEL have failed to trace you ... this is happening more and more with these parking companies and the judges know it

The chances are high in your favour (with the help on here) that a judge will set this aside which means there is nothing shown on your credit rating
CEL should pay you the set aside amount of £275 .... if not then you can sue CEL

It then follows that as CEL failed to trace you using a legal, DCBL, who would have signed a statement of truth and added fake amounts, the case will be dismissed.

Coupon-mad

There must have been a reason for non payment?  If so, there's nothing to worry about and this is not about the PCN yet.

Jack5656

I've read the newbie threads but still not sure about how to fill out some of the N244 - any help please with this question -

is the claim number the CCJ number?

4 "Have you attached a draft of the order you are applying for?" -

The help notes say you can ignore questiosn 4 to 9 but still I'd like to understand what a draft of the order is for question 4?

I'm also really worried I'm not at all qualified to defend myself in a court when a judge is questionig me about the original offence!

If there is a set aside am I then commited to a later hearing to defend the original charge which I will find hard to defend.

Jack5656

Coupon-mad said:

There must have been a reason for non payment?  If so, there's nothing to worry about and this is not about the PCN yet.

That is my worry - I think it was a scenario were we took a chance and didn't buy a parking ticket as someone was left in the car while the other nipped into a shop and no traffice warden aroun etc. I don't think it will be easy to defend that other than to say we had no ticket placed on the car and never realised there was photos taken of our car going in and out.

I can't see the judge igoring this original parking offence on that basis?  In that case is it better have set aside in consent and pay the charge and get the CCJ removed quicker?

Coupon-mad

Nope, not with CEL.  They will want the full money and will provide what I suspect will be a half-arsed consent Order that a Judge might reject.

Too risky, too expensive and not a good plan to ever shell out huge money to the likes of CEL.  You can't trust a legal dept run by the person who was 'Head of Legal' at legally disgraced Wonga (a failure of a rip-off firm, reported to MET Police to investigate, before they went into administration).

There is no need to try to recall or guess what happened on an unremarkable day many years ago, when the Defendant may or may not have been driving.

Please just read the other cases first.  The ones you found when you properly searched for the terms I gave you, and delved fully into reading several of the results.

Jack5656

Thank you Coupon-mad.

So you still say I should 99% likely win the set aside and then say I can honestly say I don't recall what happened 3-4 years ago or who was driver?

I do not know what evidence CEL have - they told me car was recorded being in this car park for 20 or so mins and no fee paid. I have asked for all the info they hold on me and will have to see what arrives in the next 30 days.

But looking at other cases if I pay the £275 - hope to get the CCJ set aside and start the defence and pay the PCN if I lose 2nd hearing but without a CCJ this time - is that correct?

Jack5656

To be successful at set aside I think I need to in the mandatory set aside as if it is descretionary and the judge wants to know if I have a reasonable defence well looking at the defence template part 3 l don't think I do:

3. [EXPLAIN IN YOUR OWN WORDS...]  

Explain briefly what business the driver had there & what went wrong?  Were signs obscured/unlit in darkness? Did a permit slip off the dash, or the keypad failed to record the full VRM?   If the PCN was issued at a residential site where you live, mention your parking rights - equally good if there's no mention of permit obligations - in your lease.

None of those apply if one of us parked there and didn't pay a ticket so I could lose the set aside descretionary arguement based on no winnable defence at next hearing?

Coupon-mad

You aren't doing s defence yet. 

You are still focussing on the PCN and presuming which day this is about, yet have seen no evidence of breach or not paying a tariff.  This all comes later.  This is their case to prove - later.

But looking at other cases if I pay the £275 - hope to get the CCJ set aside and start the defence and pay the PCN if I lose 2nd hearing but without a CCJ this time - is that correct?

Yes - correct - and if they used an old address with no soft trace address checks. then you may get the £275 ordered for them to pay you back when the CCJ is set aside.

And by using the Boxwood/4 months dead argument (as I advised you to go find) the entire claim should be struck out.  Completely.