Completion Delay - Won't pay costs

lr1277

Thanks theJP. That makes sense.

Admittedly my memory on this is hazy but I did sell in 2018 with completion on a Friday a week before Christmas. I hadn't heard anything by 5pm. Then nothing by 7pm. I was getting worried that completion would be held over till Monday.

But I got the email by 9pm that completion had happened. I can't remember if I got the money that day or a day or so afterwards.

However my mortgage was paid off on that Friday, confirmed by checking my mortgage account on Saturday.

I was fortunate in that I was going into rented so wasn't buying as well that day.

So I guess a late completion would have been possible. But perhaps EA's were closed so keys couldn't have been handed over. And as the OP said, the removals staff weren't willing to deliver and unpack that late.

In my case, I am not sure when the buyer got their keys. I remember something about them being out of the country in the week that completion took place.

babyblade41

Thanks JP , slightly clearer 
OP didn't  exchange on their forwarding property so no breach of contract...I think I understand now, but it appears they would be doing same day exchange and complete on forwarding purchase or else why would they need a hotel.?

If they had no onward purchase they wouldn't need alternative accommodation for the night  

I think the removal people are a little at fault as well as any reputable company don't usually have set finishing hours of 9-5 due to the nature of how fickle completion times can be .

In all honesty to answer the original OP's question about getting their money back for removal company fees will be very arduous , adding more costs  and quite frankly more trouble than it's worth .

FWIW it's best to just put this down to experience for future reference , sometimes  it doesn't always go to plan 

pinkteapot

OP, agree with doozer you need to seek legal advice. 

I’ll be blunt - you’ve not done a great job of explaining what happened clearly and precisely. If you pursue through small claims court with no legal advice that’s exactly what you’ll have to do on the paperwork or you won’t get anywhere. 

A lot of solicitors will do a free quick initial phone chat to establish if there’s anything worth pursuing. Try local solicitors, but before you do have all the facts listed out as concisely as possible so you have a script.

TheJP

babyblade41 said:

Thanks JP , slightly clearer 
OP didn't  exchange on their forwarding property so no breach of contract...I think I understand now, but it appears they would be doing same day exchange and complete on forwarding purchase or else why would they need a hotel.?

If they had no onward purchase they wouldn't need alternative accommodation for the night  

I think the removal people are a little at fault as well as any reputable company don't usually have set finishing hours of 9-5 due to the nature of how fickle completion times can be .

In all honesty to answer the original OP's question about getting their money back for removal company fees will be very arduous , adding more costs  and quite frankly more trouble than it's worth .

FWIW it's best to just put this down to experience for future reference , sometimes  it doesn't always go to plan 

If they exchanged on their forwarding purchase they would likely have breached the contract due to the time the cleared funds arrived at their solicitors, makes sense not to if there was no guarantee to complete.

Removals will clearly state in their contract a time that the job needs to be finished due to over time for staff etc, i didn't complete until 3.30pm and my removals said that they would need to get back to the yard and unload the van by 4.30pm or id have to pay for another day rate.

If the buyer hadn't ensured their own funds had cleared with their solicitor before completion then i would say they are at fault for the costs if the contract stated 12 noon completion.

babyblade41

@TheJP thanks .  I'm just still very unclear about the whole thing .

I agree with @pinkteapot , if you go down the small claims route the OP will have to be very clear & concise about what happened as at the minute I haven't really got a Scooby what happened precisely 

A court wouldn't waste their time trying to figure out what happened from the OP 

TheJP

babyblade41 said:

@TheJP thanks .  I'm just still very unclear about the whole thing .

I agree with @pinkteapot , if you go down the small claims route the OP will have to be very clear & concise about what happened as at the minute I haven't really got a Scooby what happened precisely 

A court wouldn't waste their time trying to figure out what happened from the OP 

Contracts exchanged, in contract completion was stated no later than 12 noon.

Completion didn't happen until 5.10pm and costs incurred to OP as a result.

Contract terms breached.

Doozergirl

TheJP said:

babyblade41 said:

@TheJP thanks .  I'm just still very unclear about the whole thing .

I agree with @pinkteapot , if you go down the small claims route the OP will have to be very clear & concise about what happened as at the minute I haven't really got a Scooby what happened precisely 

A court wouldn't waste their time trying to figure out what happened from the OP 

Contracts exchanged, in contract completion was stated no later than 12 noon.

Completion didn't happen until 5.10pm and costs incurred to OP as a result.

Contract terms breached.

See, no one is clear on this because I've read that completion did not happen at 5.10pm either, but that this was advice given to the OP rather than a total
inability. 

And we've got zero idea what happened after that or up the chain.  And no one knows what's in the contract.  

The OP needs proper legal advice and a proper timeline putting together.  That's the only fact. 

kirtondm

I agree get a litigation solicitor to deal with this. It should be very straightforward. The Contract was breeched as cleared funds not present at 12.00. A night in a hotel and paying the removal fees do not seem excessive claims to me and are as a direct result of breech of contract. You may even be able to get them to pay your own legal fees as a very open and shut case?

I suspect one letter from a litigation solicitor and they will make an offer to settle.

I would not go down the small claims route with this even if you are allowed to bring claims which deal with property? 

saajan_12

TheJP said:

Ok so i think a lot of people are missing the links here;

The OP exchanged contracts on their own property sale in December, they hadn't yet exchanged contracts on the property they are buying.

Come completion day of the house they are selling (already exchanged) the buyer missed the 12pm deadline, removals come close to the end of their shift would have headed back to base. The funds arrived at 5.10pm and completion is complete.

The OP's solicitor advised not exchanging contracts on their onward purchase as they then would breach that contract if completion was due on the same day.

All in all the delay has screwed everyone over apart from the buyer of OPs property.

I do think you should be compensated but depends how clear cut the contracts are regarding the timings.

Not clear this is the case either, as OP hasn't stated what happened with their purchase and later said the 'exchange' was a typo and meant 'complete'. 

OP, please clarify the date you: 
1) date you exchanged on sale
2) date you exchanged on purchase
3) date you completed on sale
4) date you completed on purchase
5) what would have happened if the buyer transferred on time 
6) breakdown of the £1200 damages (eg hotel? removals? costs passed down from your vendor? 
7) Did the buyer know you were in a chain (may not be if you hadn't exchanged on the purchase)?

The issue here isn't really whether the OP completed ie handed over their house. The point is by the buyer's delay, the OP didn't have the money in time so may not have been able to move into another house. So we have to consider whether they had a reasonable expectation of moving into another house that day and if the buyer's delay prevented that.. 

NNLisbon

saajan_12 said:

TheJP said:

Ok so i think a lot of people are missing the links here;

The OP exchanged contracts on their own property sale in December, they hadn't yet exchanged contracts on the property they are buying.

Come completion day of the house they are selling (already exchanged) the buyer missed the 12pm deadline, removals come close to the end of their shift would have headed back to base. The funds arrived at 5.10pm and completion is complete.

The OP's solicitor advised not exchanging contracts on their onward purchase as they then would breach that contract if completion was due on the same day.

All in all the delay has screwed everyone over apart from the buyer of OPs property.

I do think you should be compensated but depends how clear cut the contracts are regarding the timings.

Not clear this is the case either, as OP hasn't stated what happened with their purchase and later said the 'exchange' was a typo and meant 'complete'. 

OP, please clarify the date you: 
1) date you exchanged on sale
2) date you exchanged on purchase
3) date you completed on sale
4) date you completed on purchase
5) what would have happened if the buyer transferred on time 
6) breakdown of the £1200 damages (eg hotel? removals? costs passed down from your vendor? 
7) Did the buyer know you were in a chain (may not be if you hadn't exchanged on the purchase)?

The issue here isn't really whether the OP completed ie handed over their house. The point is by the buyer's delay, the OP didn't have the money in time so may not have been able to move into another house. So we have to consider whether they had a reasonable expectation of moving into another house that day and if the buyer's delay prevented that.. 

Hi,

I thought it was quite a straightforward question, hence why detail was light (I was trying not to exhaust people with too much info), my apologies if I've caused any confusion and thanks for all the responses. 

Some clarification.
 
1) date you exchanged on sale - 17/11/21
2) date you exchanged on purchase - 17/11/21
3) date you completed on sale - 18/01/22
4) date you completed on purchase - 18/01/22
5) what would have happened if the buyer transferred on time. Completion the day before, as contracts dictated. 
6) breakdown of the £1200 damages (eg hotel? removals? costs passed down from your vendor? £1100 to the removal company (including waiting fees, travel back to the depot, overnight storage and the team to return the following day and complete the move, £130 for hotel. My buyer did pay the £208 interest charge, but not the other costs. Thankfully, my vendor was incredibly decent and did not insist that interest was to be paid. They had no onward chain themselves as were selling a second property. 
7) Did the buyer know you were in a chain (may not be if you hadn't exchanged on the purchase)? Yes, they knew there was a chain

Just to try and answer some of the other questions. Money was finally received from my buyer at 5:10pm but still needed to be paid on to my vendor's solicitor in order for me to secure the property I was moving into. I was advised that there was no guarantee funds would definitely be received by vendor solicitor's closing (5:30pm) and I would be left vulnerable if I completed on my sale, but then couldn't complete on my onward purchase until the following day. This eventuality would also have had further ramifications and required me to pay the early repayment charge to my mortgage company. 

I am personally struggling with the commentary that my buyer isn't culpable. It was clear in our contracts that there was a 12pm completion deadline and at 11:50am they still had not made a significant payment to their solicitors. I kept my end of the bargain and vacated the house as agreed, which meant I had to remove all furniture and load it onto a van to move.

If the advice is that it's a pointless to try and pursue it then I understand, but I'm struggling to see how I've got to shoulder costs that I just shouldn't have needed to pay.