Can I be fired and can they keep refusing holiday?HELP

NurseMoneySaver1122

I work for a cleaning company, in a job share, cleaning an office building. It’s only my colleague and I, all other employees are scattered around other office buildings around the country (so it’s not a case where we have a cleaning team working alongside us, if that makes sense).

They require us to find our own holiday cover, often expecting us to ‘sign up’ friends and family!

My maternity leave recently came to an end and I am now on holiday leave. However, when I return I won’t be able to cover my colleagues holiday leave anymore due to a lack of childcare, and I’m worried that a) the company can fire me, and b) that they will no longer authorise my colleagues holiday leave, as she won’t be able to find any other cover.

My contract (I believe) states I’m required to work additional hours:

“Your normal hours of work may include working on Bank/Public holidays or such hours per week as required by your post with breaks to be taken as designated by your line manager. The actual times of work will vary according to the needs of the business and may involve evening or weekend working. You agree to work such additional hours or, from time to time, lower or no hours…”

Can I be fired if I can no longer cover my colleague/do overtime due to a lack of childcare? And where is the line drawn if the company keeps refusing to authorise my colleagues holiday due to no cover? I know they can do so, but she has to be allowed eventually so when would enough be enough?

P.S. we TUPED to this company in 2020, and never used to HAVE TO cover one another…in fact the job share was created for my colleague who started struggling to do the job on her own

TBagpuss

As employees, you are entitled to your statutory leave, although the company can dictate when you take it.
So eventually there comes a point when they either have t allow you / he to take the leave you have requested, or they need to tell you / her to take it, so that it is taken. Except when you end your employment they can't pay you in lieu of statutory leave.  If you re entitled to additional leave over the statutory minimum then the rues may be different and will depend on what you contract / employers policies say 


Looking at the wording of the contract, it does appear that they are saying you have to do the extra hours so if you say you are not available they could argue that you are in breach.

That said, they can't force you, all they can do is treat it is a disciplinary matter if you turn down the extra hours 

It may be sensible for you to speak to your line manager and explain that you won't be able to cover extra hours moving forward due to child care needs (or, alternatively, to say that you will only be able to take on extra hours if you can get childcare, and that this will normally require x days / weeks notice / will only be possible at specific time (for instance, whenever your child's other parent is not working so is available to look after the baby) if there are times when you would or might be able to do extra hours. 

It may be worth you looking around to see what jobs are available - in a lot of fields at the moment employers are desperate to fill roles so you maybe in a strong position to negotiate or to find an alternative job if they try to force you to do the extra hours. 

Undervalued

TBagpuss said:

As employees, you are entitled to your statutory leave, although the company can dictate when you take it.
So eventually there comes a point when they either have t allow you / he to take the leave you have requested, or they need to tell you / her to take it, so that it is taken. Except when you end your employment they can't pay you in lieu of statutory leave.  If you re entitled to additional leave over the statutory minimum then the rues may be different and will depend on what you contract / employers policies say 


Looking at the wording of the contract, it does appear that they are saying you have to do the extra hours so if you say you are not available they could argue that you are in breach.

That said, they can't force you, all they can do is treat it is a disciplinary matter if you turn down the extra hours 

It may be sensible for you to speak to your line manager and explain that you won't be able to cover extra hours moving forward due to child care needs (or, alternatively, to say that you will only be able to take on extra hours if you can get childcare, and that this will normally require x days / weeks notice / will only be possible at specific time (for instance, whenever your child's other parent is not working so is available to look after the baby) if there are times when you would or might be able to do extra hours. 

It may be worth you looking around to see what jobs are available - in a lot of fields at the moment employers are desperate to fill roles so you maybe in a strong position to negotiate or to find an alternative job if they try to force you to do the extra hours. 

Indeed.

Just to add, routine childcare is not a valid reason to avoid or change your contractual obligations to your employer.

You have a legal right to "short" periods of unpaid leave in an "emergency situation" with a dependent but that is all. The words I have put in inverted commas are not actually defined in the law, however it is normally taken to be a day or two (maximum) to arrange cover if the child is ill (or alternative cover if the childcare provider lets you down). It does not allow you longer periods off work to care for the child yourself.

Many employer show far more flexibility than this but sadly it doesn't sound as though yours is one of them!

NurseMoneySaver1122

Jeez, now I’m really worried. It has been nothing but a nightmare since we TUPED to this company. We have a new manager every couple months, currently we don’t even have a direct line manager but a regional director in Wales overseeing the entire UK. It’s crazy. 

So effectively if they can say I’m in breach of my contract, I know they will. So I’m returning from Mat leave to lose my job because I can’t do overtime, which is double my own hours! This was never part of my contract with the other company..it just all seems so unfair. 

It’s so difficult. My partner works 6am-6pm. So there’s a limited window from when he get homes from work and needs to go to bed in order to be up at 4/4:30am. I understand that isn’t their problem. But I’ve never encountered a contract before where another persons hours were my problem effectively. I’m so angry and saddened. 

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sound ‘woe is me’. I’m a little emotional at the stress that I know is about to come my way

Thank you for your help though

Alanp

Are there any care homes where you are, ?, they are nearly always looking for housekeeping staff, 

dcfc67

Do you live near a hospital ? They always have domestic (cleaning jobs available).
Some are bank shifts- you choose the shifts you want to work usually between 3 and 6 hours per shift. Hours are flexible to meets the needs of the hospital and 7 days a week.
It is usually a Band 2 job £9.49 an hour or £10.12 after 2 years.
Rates will be higher if you live in London.

Not all hospitals directly employ facilities staff so rates may be lower if its a 3rd party employer like ISS or Sodexo.

www.jobs.nhs.uk if it interests you. 

Good pension and sick pay if are in a substantive role 
 

NurseMoneySaver1122

Yeah, I used to work at the hospital, as a registered nurse ironically 🤦‍♀️ But left to take care of a relative. 

I started job searching last night, and am also toying with the idea of returning to practice (nursing). One thing I know, is I need a contract where my responsibility stops at my own hours only 🙏

Could have done without this right on my return from mat leave 😔

Thank you for your advice everyone

Penguin_

NurseMoneySaver1122 said:

Jeez, now I’m really worried. It has been nothing but a nightmare since we TUPED to this company. We have a new manager every couple months, currently we don’t even have a direct line manager but a regional director in Wales overseeing the entire UK. It’s crazy. 

So effectively if they can say I’m in breach of my contract, I know they will. So I’m returning from Mat leave to lose my job because I can’t do overtime, which is double my own hours! This was never part of my contract with the other company..it just all seems so unfair. 

It’s so difficult. My partner works 6am-6pm. So there’s a limited window from when he get homes from work and needs to go to bed in order to be up at 4/4:30am. I understand that isn’t their problem. But I’ve never encountered a contract before where another persons hours were my problem effectively. I’m so angry and saddened. 

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sound ‘woe is me’. I’m a little emotional at the stress that I know is about to come my way

Thank you for your help though

How long ago were you TUPE'd?

mr_stripey

I don't know what the legalities are, but it seems absolutely unreasonable for them to act in this way.

Definately time to look for a fairer employer I think.Good luck with it 

NurseMoneySaver1122

Penguin_ said:

NurseMoneySaver1122 said:

Jeez, now I’m really worried. It has been nothing but a nightmare since we TUPED to this company. We have a new manager every couple months, currently we don’t even have a direct line manager but a regional director in Wales overseeing the entire UK. It’s crazy. 

So effectively if they can say I’m in breach of my contract, I know they will. So I’m returning from Mat leave to lose my job because I can’t do overtime, which is double my own hours! This was never part of my contract with the other company..it just all seems so unfair. 

It’s so difficult. My partner works 6am-6pm. So there’s a limited window from when he get homes from work and needs to go to bed in order to be up at 4/4:30am. I understand that isn’t their problem. But I’ve never encountered a contract before where another persons hours were my problem effectively. I’m so angry and saddened. 

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sound ‘woe is me’. I’m a little emotional at the stress that I know is about to come my way

Thank you for your help though

How long ago were you TUPE'd?

The end of 2019, October off the top of my head 

bartelbe

The blunt reality is, if the company wants to get rid of you, they can. Employment laws in this country aren't worth the paper they are written on.

In the UK you're only option is to look for a better employer.