Gifted deposits and private agreements

Jo*_2

Hi,

When a gifted deposit form is signed by both parties, but another private document is later drawn up (with no solicitor / conveyancer / mortgage lender involved) stating the money will be repaid - is this document legal?

Many thanks.

Keep_pedalling

Declaring a loan as a gift is mortgage fraud, do you want to do that?

Jo*_2

Hi - absolutely not. My question though is if that other agreement is an agreement that has to be legally adhered to?

Thrugelmir

Jo*_2 said:

When a gifted deposit form is signed by both parties, but another private document is later drawn up (with no solicitor / conveyancer / mortgage lender involved) stating the money will be repaid - is this document legal?

Until the mortgage is discharged, i.e. the debt repaid, it would be a useless piece of paper. Legally unenforcable. 

user1977

Jo*_2 said:

Hi - absolutely not. My question though is if that other agreement is an agreement that has to be legally adhered to?

Potentially yes. Depends whether it's contradicted by anything else between the same parties which denies it's a loan.

kingstreet

Jo*_2 said:

Hi,

When a gifted deposit form is signed by both parties, but another private document is later drawn up (with no solicitor / conveyancer / mortgage lender involved) stating the money will be repaid - is this document legal?

Many thanks.

FWIW gifted deposit letters/forms are signed only by the donor, not the recipient.

MWT

Jo*_2 said:

Hi - absolutely not. My question though is if that other agreement is an agreement that has to be legally adhered to?

It is possible to draft something that would be legally binding, and could avoid the potential for fraud, but given that no professionals have been involved I'd be surprised if that had been achieved

Not really much any of us can say though as the answer depends entirely upon how it has been drafted.

getmore4less

Could get messy

The initial gift creates a PET on the donor estate at the time of gifting.
(don't think that can be undone)

There could be a gift back creating another PET. and no money change hands as it is setup by a loan from the original doner.

original donor now has double tha amount in there estate for  the remainder of the 7 years from the initial gift.

Jo*_2

kingstreet said:

Jo*_2 said:

Hi,

When a gifted deposit form is signed by both parties, but another private document is later drawn up (with no solicitor / conveyancer / mortgage lender involved) stating the money will be repaid - is this document legal?

Many thanks.

FWIW gifted deposit letters/forms are signed only by the donor, not the recipient.

Yes my mistake. He signed the gifted deposit form, not me.

Jo*_2

MWT said:

Jo*_2 said:

Hi - absolutely not. My question though is if that other agreement is an agreement that has to be legally adhered to?

It is possible to draft something that would be legally binding, and could avoid the potential for fraud, but given that no professionals have been involved I'd be surprised if that had been achieved

Not really much any of us can say though as the answer depends entirely upon how it has been drafted.

He just drafted this second agreement himself. No legal entities involved, nor any witnesses. Would this still be legally binding?

MWT

Jo*_2 said:

MWT said:

Jo*_2 said:

Hi - absolutely not. My question though is if that other agreement is an agreement that has to be legally adhered to?

It is possible to draft something that would be legally binding, and could avoid the potential for fraud, but given that no professionals have been involved I'd be surprised if that had been achieved

Not really much any of us can say though as the answer depends entirely upon how it has been drafted.

He just drafted this second agreement himself. No legal entities involved, nor any witnesses. Would this still be legally binding?

You don't need a lawyer to make it a binding agreement, I can write one on the back of an envelope or not even write one at all and just make a verbal agreement which can still be legally binding (as long as it does not involve land).

It is just that without the appropriate expertise involved it is harder to make sure it is solid and achieves the desired end.

Even a lack of witnesses doesn't automatically invalidate an agreement.

What matters in the end is did you intend there to be an agreement at the time it was entered into and was there some consideration for the agreement.

Just reading between the lines and jumping to a few conclusions, there was money given to someone to use as a deposit and subsequently the giver of the money has insisted on it being repaid, but the recipient doesn't want to repay it...

In that case I would suggest that it would be unwise for the recipient to have signed any such document created by the giver, or to have ever suggested that they intended to repay it...