Does using the Marriage Allowance require the person giving the allownce to complete self assesment?

Carwashh

If spouse A is working, and spouse B is not working at all - after doing the marriage allowance, is spouse B required to complete self assesment forms?

Additional context as to why I'm asking, though I, now, don't think it's relevant information: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6338768/does-using-the-marriage-allowance-require-the-person-giving-the-allownce-to-complete-self-assesment/

Carwashh

My wife has been fined for not completing self-assesments for 3 years. We moved in 2014, she was working part time at our old address, and after moving did not get another job as she was raising our children. We moved from down south to up north. 

In 2017 I started a new job and we found out about the marriage allowance, as she wasn't working we completed the online form and carried on with our lives.

Towards the end of last year my wife started employment again, she then received 3 letters with fines for not completing self-assements in 2017-2018, 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. No letters had been received prior to this because they still had our old address registered for her account, which got updated when she started her new job.

As she went from Q4 2014 to Q3 2021 without working, we have no idea why she would have had to complete any self-assement forms. The only thing I can think of is because of the Marriage Allowance, but I have been unable to find anything about this online - if this is the case, how are we supposed to have known this? 

Our appeals have been rejected, but we don't even know why these self-assements were requried in the first place? It's just been impossible to get through to talk to someone on the phone at HMRC about this.

Alice_Holt

Carwashh said:

Towards the end of last year my wife started employment again, she then received 3 letters with fines for not completing self-assements in 2017-2018, 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. No letters had been received prior to this because they still had our old address registered for her account, which got updated when she started her new job.

      Surely, it's her responsibility to notify such a change of circumstance ?

       HMRC are not mind-readers, you needed to tell them -
          i)  her new address,
          ii) her changed employed status.

    Suspect it's nothing to do with the Marriage Allowance, but your clear failure to notify.

    But do try the Cutting Tax forum. 

calcotti

Alice_Holt said:    Suspect it's nothing to do with the Marriage Allowance, but your clear failure to notify.

That’s my take too. You are supposed to do a tax return if required to do so. HMRC would not know it would be a nil return until they received it. (But still worth to asking on the Cutting Tax forum in case anyone has advice about any challenge that can be made.)

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Marriage Allowance in itself is not something that would require completion of a Self Assessment return.

There must be more to this but without your wife asking for an explanation from HMRC it's difficult to know what it could be.

Carwashh

Alice_Holt said:

Carwashh said:

Towards the end of last year my wife started employment again, she then received 3 letters with fines for not completing self-assements in 2017-2018, 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. No letters had been received prior to this because they still had our old address registered for her account, which got updated when she started her new job.

      Surely, it's her responsibility to notify such a change of circumstance ?

       HMRC are not mind-readers, you needed to tell them -
          i)  her new address,
          ii) her changed self-employed status.

    Suspect it's nothing to do with the Marriage Allowance, but your clear failure to notify.

    But do try the Cutting Tax forum. 

I added the address information to give the full story, yes our failure to inform them - but as nothing changed to her employment status in any of these years (as stated, went from 2014 to 2021 without working)... your ii is not relevant (never been self-employed). 

All this post is after is if the self-assesment requirement was due to the marriage allowance, which it does not look like it was.

Carwashh

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Marriage Allowance in itself is not something that would require completion of a Self Assessment return.

There must be more to this but without your wife asking for an explanation from HMRC it's difficult to know what it could be.

Thanks for the info.

We tried for an hour today to get through, couldn't get through to talk to anyone.. the system would just end up taking us somewhere and saying "nope" then hanging up.

On-the-coast

The answer is “no” - which seems  to have been answered in full on your linked thread. 

MSE_ForumTeam5

We've merged the two threads

Jeremy535897

You are not required to complete a self assessment tax return because you transfer marriage allowance to your spouse, unless that in itself generates a tax liability, which in this case it would not.

If your spouse was required to complete self assessment tax returns in the past, she is still required to complete them until she tells HMRC that she should not be required to complete them, and HMRC agree.

Taxpayers are required to notify HMRC of a change of address.

Applying to transfer marriage allowance means HMRC look at both spouse's tax affairs to check for eligibility, and as your spouse's affairs will show that she is required to complete self assessment tax returns, this may well have triggered the penalty notices.

Have a look at this:
https://taxaid.org.uk/guides/taxpayers/tax-returns/late-filing-penalties-and-appeals

More comprehensively:
https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/tax-basics/enquiries-penalties-appeals-complaints-and-debt/tax-penalties

sheramber

Did she complete a self assessment return prior to moving and stopping work?

The best time to phone HMRC is as soon as lines open in the morning. Start dialling a minute or two before the time to be at the start of the queue/