Fined £408 by Magistrates court for not presenting £4.20 train ticket

Jack_Murphy

I have received a letter from Manchester Magistrates Court advising I need to pay £408 by the 25th February or I could risk arrest and imprisonment. This is for not paying a £20 train fine I had received in September 2021. I had not paid this as I was appealing this I I had been fined unjustly. Previously to receiving the fine I had traveled from Patricroft train station to Manchester Piccadilly train station approximately 5 times in the previous 4 weeks. Each time I had bought my ticket at Piccadilly as I wished to pay in cash and there is no facility for this at Patricroft station. On each of these occasions I was sold a ticket with no problems and had never once been informed that I may receive a fine if I try and do this again in the future, so I continued to do this as I was under the impression there was no issue with this. I then made the exact same journey in mid September and was issued with a £20 fine for trying to buy my ticket in Piccadilly. I was attempting to buy the £4.20 ticket but the officer refused to sell it to me and fined me £20 for not buying a ticket in Patricroft. I explained that I was trying to pay with cash but he didnt want to know and advised me that there was a sign in Patricroft warning of this fine. I advised him there is not. I have since been to Patricroft station to re-check and can confirm there is no such sign at all, or anything to indicate that my actions of buying the ticket in Piccadilly could result in a fine. As I mentioned I was never once told this by any staff member either.

 I mad an appeal through the penalty services appeal process and did not hear back from them so I assumed they had wiped the fine and uphelp my appeal. I have since received a letter the other week from the magistrates court, demanding I pay £408 by the 25th February, or I could face arrest and imprisonment. I  checked my spam folder and found the reply for the penalty services that I had not seen until yesterday. They had advised my appeal had not been upheld as they had asked Northern rail, and northern rail had informed them that there is a sign in Patricroft to let me know about the fine, which is not true and is a complete fabrication.

I am now at the point where I do not know what to do or how to stop this. I  cannot afford to pay £408 and want to have this appeal taken seriously and the fine wiped, IU would be happy to pay the £4.20 rail fair as I was happy doing the day I got the fine. Please can someone advise on what I should do next? I have wrote a letter to northern rail to make an appeal but I fear it may be too late. All help is very much appreciated, thank you.

Sandtree

They have actually fined you rather telling you need to enter a plea and this is what you are looking at?

Ultimately you need to contact the magistrate court on the letter and discuss your options. Traveling on a train without buying or being able to produce a ticket is a criminal offence and whilst signage can help ultimately you don't go to Tesco and walkout with a basket full of food because there isn't a sign to say you can't. 

SirFreddy

Surely if you received a letter from the Court informing you of the fine, then you would have received an earlier letter informing you of the day of the hearing at Manchester Magistrates Court?

Rail Forums Uk have a very helpful section for cases like yours, but I feel if your case has already been heard in the magistrates court, there is little you can do.

daveyjp

Agree that you should post this at Railforums.

At ticket machine only stations Northern have in place a 'Promise to Pay' system for those who pay by cash.  You obtain a Promise to Pay voucher before boarding.

The legality of a requirement to have one of these to travel and whether it is a ticket has probably never been tested in court.

giraffe69

 "I mad an appeal through the penalty services appeal process and did not hear back from them so I assumed they had wiped the fine and uphelp my appeal."

To let a £20 charge escalate to over £400 seems bizarre. Putting aside whether you knew Northern Rail's policy and whether there was or was not a sign you appealed and then assumed because you didn't hear that meant your appeal had been granted and did not check with them or your spam folder. I fear you are the architect of your own misfortune. There may be good reason why you don't pay with a credit or debit card but it would have save much aggravation.

Manxman_in_exile

I suspect it's too late now but I don't think anybody has advised you to swear a Statutory Declaration?

Provided you were UNAWARE of the proceedings against you in the Magistrates' court, you can make a Stat Dec within 21 days of learning of your conviction.  The effect of that Stat Dec is to reset the conviction and it goes back to the mags court for you to defend again.  So long as you swear the Dec WITHIN 21 days of learning of the conviction, it MUST be accepted by the court.  If it's later than 21 days the court has a discretion whether to accept it or not.

If you didn't know about the court case and you don't want to pay the court fine or have bailiffs after you, you must act ASAP!!!

You can do a stat dec for free at a court or pay to swear one in front of a solicitor.  I'm sure you can find more info by Googling or asking CAB.  (You could try googling "Statutory Declaration to set aside Magistrates conviction" etc or ask a solicitor)

Just for your information in future: if you ever get into a situation where you may have travelled on or boarded a train without a valid ticket when you'd had an opportunity to do so, and they end up wanting you to pay a penalty fare, it's usually best to pay under protest and appeal it later.  If you don't pay it... things can always go pear-shaped quickly...

TELLIT01

As the OP is learning, you should never assume anything.  If you don't hear back from the penalty service appeal process it is frankly ridiculous to jump to the conclusion that they agreed with you and the fine had been set aside.  Whether they agreed or not, a letter with their decision would have been sent.

ssparks2003

Jack_Murphy said:

 I mad an appeal through the penalty services appeal process and did not hear back from them so I assumed they had wiped the fine and uphelp my appeal....

 I  checked my spam folder and found the reply for the penalty services that I had not seen until yesterday. They had advised my appeal had not been upheld 

So you did actually have a response to your appeal, but just failed to open the email? I do think that you have to take a significant level of responsibility on this one.

giraffe69

OP has also posted, once, on the RailUK board and got a number of helpful replies but has never posted further on that board either. After a couple of weeks perhaps fair to suggest he never will.

Manxman_in_exile

giraffe69 said:

OP has also posted, once, on the RailUK board and got a number of helpful replies but has never posted further on that board either. After a couple of weeks perhaps fair to suggest he never will.

He's probably waiting for notifications of responses from here and RailUK, but hasn't thought to check his spam folder... again!

   

SirFreddy

Jack_Murphy, You have members on here and also on Railforums trying to help you,but they have heard nothing from you, I hope that you are OK.