Is this even legal?

77588p

My 16 year old daughter works for a large burger fast food chain in the uk. I have just been to pick her up and she told me that her boss explained she owed £36 and had to pay either cash or card.

When I questioned what this was about she told me they make a note every time a till is down and once it reaches a certain limit all the staff have to pay a portion of the missing money.

I asked her if she has ever had a till down and she said she didnt know as there are always 2 tills on and everyonr just uses the same tills so they never find out if a till is ever up or down.

Here is what really annoys me... my daughter wont ever leave anything in the staff room as things go missing. They know one of the staff is a theif. What if this individual is taking money from the till and my daughter is having to contribute towards that. Doesnt make sense to me.

Finally when they asked her for money they mentioned that they have sometimes needed to pay taxis which is also included in this money. My daughter has never had a taxi. At 16 she sometines doesnt finish till 10:30pm and due to lack of buses I pick her up every night.

This has really made me angry as I feel they are taking advantage of kids who dont know better. Maybe i'm wrong. 

Dakta

I actually feel quite angry about reading this too as it doesn't read right at all.

As I udnerstand it - and this link seems to agree 'https://worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/pay-and-contracts/pay/i-am-shop-worker-can-my-employer-make-deductions-wages-cover-till' - the deduction can only take place if the employment contract permits it.

The fact they are asking to pay by card/cash seems a bit questionable as well (to me) surely if it was a contractual thing it would be deducted from the wage. Me being somewhat paranoid would be checking what/who it is I was paying (assuming she does it) And the fact they are asking all the staff to contribute is a firm red flag - I'd personally tell them where to go and if it really bothers them do their job and investigate.  (but that probably comes with age and grumpiness). That would likely cost me my job but it wouldn't be a real loss.

"Finally when they asked her for money they mentioned that they have sometimes needed to pay taxis which is also included in this money. My daughter has never had a taxi. At 16 she sometines doesnt finish till 10:30pm and due to lack of buses I pick her up every night."

Time to check contracts but my gut (and non-professional feeling) is to get out of there asap. I'm sure others will add their bit soon as there's so much about what you've written I don't like. 

77588p

Thank you Dakta. 

My daughter is telling me to drop it. She is a shy quiet 16 year old and doesnt want any drama. I get it and at 16 I didnt want my parents getting involved.

Unfortunately she doent have a copy of her contract and wouldnt ask for it as she is too shy. 

london21

I will find another role.

Difficult situation to be in. I only have experience working in retail at M&S whilst studying and such would not be allowed in such a big reputable company.

Dakta

I'm not a legal expert so I'd wait for some further responses, but my sister experienced something similar years ago in a retail job she had at a similar age and the impression I get is it's just taking advantage, but it wants checking out properly.

It shouldn't be dropped, the contract really wants checking to make sure there's no provision for it but do expect to be advising one to be moving job as even if completely wrong is likely cultural and you'll unlikely change that. Even if provisions existed in the contract if I were giving advice to anyone would be to walk away as some of the things you've  described are things I'd never agree to. (i.e we do not track till useage but if someone pinches from one you will be held jointly liable for it). Erm, how about foxtrot oscar to you and your contract

Your daughter might insist on dropping in but if she can afford to make a move it might be a good lesson in knowing when to make the jump as nobody in this world will make it their job to protect you.

This is all in my opinion
 

Jaybee_16

A deduction cannot normally reduce your pay below the National Minimum Wage even if you agree to it, except if the deduction is for:

• tax or National Insurance
• something you’ve done and your contract says you’re liable for it, for example a shortfall in your till if you work in a shop
• repayment of a loan or advance of wages
• repayment of an accidental overpayment of wages
• buying shares or share options in the business
• accommodation provided by your employer
• your own use, for example union subscriptions or pension contributions

If you work in retail - for example shops, restaurants

Your employer cannot take more than 10% from your gross pay (pay before tax and National Insurance) each pay period to cover any shortfalls.

Understanding your pay: Deductions from your pay - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

I suspect it's in the contract she doesn't have. 

theoretica

IS this a franchise, or the chain itself?  I suspect that it is a franchise gone a bit rogue and firm contact to the parent chain about the way their franchisee is acting would be a good idea.

hyubh

I'm just a complete rando on the internet with no employment rights expertise whatsoever, so feel free to ignore. However, until I read Jillanddy's post I didn't clock the key part: this 'fine' is not being done as a deduction through payroll! Who's to say the line manager isn't taking money from the till and getting their underlings to make up the difference? The fact this is being presented as some sort of collective punishment, rather than the actual culprit (even as an innocent mistake) being identified and made to cough up, makes me particularly inclined to think the worse. The idea of meekly paying out seems absurd to me (although recall: complete internet rando). If this is being presented as 'the rules', then it can be done properly as a deduction from the next pay packet.

Thrugelmir

77588p said:

My 16 year old daughter works for a large burger fast food chain in the uk. 

Is it a franchise operation as opposed to an owned outlet? 

TBagpuss

YEs, as others have said, this stinks.

There are circumstances where they could lawfully deduct from her wages for shortages in the till, but that should be shown on her wage slip, it wouldn't be a cash or card payment.

And it would only be lawful if it was in her contract. I suspect that they would also have a hard time justifying it if the set up means that others have constant access to the till so there's no way to know who made the mistake.

I get that she is keen to drop it but I'd encourage her not to  - maybe suggest s that she politely requests a copy of her contract  And if they ask for payment again then advise her to play the innocent. and keep 'forgetting' to pay. Or to play the wide eyed innocent "Oh, actually I was reading about this the other say and anything like that would have to go though my pay slip, otherwise my tax records and everything will be wrong and I don't want to get in trouble with HMRC. 

If it's a large enough franchise 9or if it is directly owned) then her other option would be to contact HR and ask for a copy of her contract and an explanation as to why she's being asked to pay cash rather than a payroll deduction - at worst they should provide the contract and details of what deductions are permitted, (and she will then at least know) and at best, they should investigate.

It sounds as though whoever is stealing from your daughter is trying to keep it of their boss's radar as well, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find they aren't pulling other scams and their boss might be extremely interested. 

What is the appeal for your daughter of that particular job? A lot of retail and food places are desperate for workers at the moment, she may do better looking for a new job, and reporting it to the Boss/ HR on the way out, if she doesn't want to do so right now. 

alonehiker

I find it incredible that 'the boss' allows such shortfalls on a regular basis. Why on earth would they not be highlighted immediately.

1. Does your daughter do an opening/closing float count?
2. Is there float count sheets highlighting any shortfalls that she's already paid?
3. Is the till readily accessible to anyone on shift?
4. Who's paying these shortfalls - everyone or selected employees?

No doubt it's the Duty Manager dictating that the tills are short making a few extra quid for themself.

It all smells.