Language-learners' chat

PipneyJane

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How is everyone doing with their adopted languages?  I’m up to date 1420 on Duolingo, and I did manage to have a small conversation in French, when I was in Normandy last October.  We went to a cafe for lunch and the owner apologised for her English.  I replied that her English was better than my French.  “Votre Anglais est meilleur de ma Français, madam.”

Also, I’ve worked out how to “cheat” at Duolingo, so that I win quests, etc.  You can’t get less than 100% if you do the “Speak” review.  With stories, you can’t get less than 90%.

- Pip

Cherryfudge

Well done for the conversation, @PipneyJane! That must give you confidence. Do you have the 'Super' version of Duolingo? I don't think I've got the option to do the 'speak' review, though I generally manage okay with the stories. I also find that if I use the computer to do a session, it has a lot of trouble with my speech, whereas the phone accepts most of what I say.

I found myself wondering why I was doing French, when I get a headache trying to speak it or translate, to the point I don't actually look forward to going to France. That's a real shame, but it's how it is. Hopefully with a break from it, I can go back and enjoy it.

At present I'm working on Italian, as we've a short holiday in Rome to look forward to. When we went last year, I could understand odd words and we were both flattered when the receptionist heard my 'Stasera' and saw DH (who could pass for Italian in a certain coat of his!) and assumed we were 'native'. I don't look in the least bit Mediterranean, so the tiny bit of language helped with that.

And I've still not found how to do accents on Microsoft 365! It's not the same as previous versions.

PipneyJane

Cherryfudge said:

Well done for the conversation, @PipneyJane! That must give you confidence. Do you have the 'Super' version of Duolingo? I don't think I've got the option to do the 'speak' review, though I generally manage okay with the stories. I also find that if I use the computer to do a session, it has a lot of trouble with my speech, whereas the phone accepts most of what I say.

I found myself wondering why I was doing French, when I get a headache trying to speak it or translate, to the point I don't actually look forward to going to France. That's a real shame, but it's how it is. Hopefully with a break from it, I can go back and enjoy it.

At present I'm working on Italian, as we've a short holiday in Rome to look forward to. When we went last year, I could understand odd words and we were both flattered when the receptionist heard my 'Stasera' and saw DH (who could pass for Italian in a certain coat of his!) and assumed we were 'native'. I don't look in the least bit Mediterranean, so the tiny bit of language helped with that.

And I've still not found how to do accents on Microsoft 365! It's not the same as previous versions.

Yes, I do have Super Duolingo. I mainly do it on my iPhone, but I also have the app on my iPad. I find, however, that if I get awarded an Early Bird chest, it only works on the device upon which it was earned.   The speak review is under the dumbbells icon, at the bottom of the App.  Ditto the Stories.

Sometimes, there is a bug where you can do Match Madness on both machines from the start.  (It doesn’t always work.)

- Pip

Cherryfudge

PipneyJane said:

 The speak review is under the dumbbells icon, at the bottom of the App.  Ditto the Stories.

Ah, I think you only get the things under the dumbbells with Super. From time to time I get three free days of Super which is quite fun: I try to do some extra high-scoring exercises and earn a higher position for the week. Inevitably I can't keep it up though. There are some serious scholars (or game players ) up there at the top!

Cherryfudge

Cherryfudge said:

 the receptionist heard my 'Stasera' 

LOL, I was doing some Duolingo and that word came up and I suddenly realised that wasn't what I said at all!  (I think it was 'Buona sera'). I have a way to go yet!

Incidentally, I was talking to a Welsh friend who told me the Duo version is a mixture of northern and southern Welsh and she's finding brushing up her Welsh is confusing.

PollyWollyDoodle

I’ve just done 75 days of Italian - I learned it for a year or so at school but didn’t get as far as GCSE (well actually it would have been O level, that’s how long ago it was!) 

I find Duolingo confusing - there was a whole unit recently on ‘this hotel is scary’ which I think is less likely to be useful than ‘my shower doesn’t work’ or ‘May I have an extra pillow’!  

I am used to learning languages in a more formal way, and I have struggled with the verbs because they jump from present tense to conditional (would you like) so you’re learning them as words rather than as structures.  

I’m in Florence right now 😄 but ashamed to say we have found everyone speaks English and so I haven’t tried.  However it’s been useful in interpreting instructions, opening times, directions etc - my friend doesn’t speak or read any Italian.  

Cherryfudge

Lucky you, @PollyWollyDoodle - Florence is lovely.

I am just doing the 'this hotel is scary' unit (last night in fact), and hoping I don't need to be describing hearing screams in the night! I think they find amusing/memorable themes to carry serious points because the research says it helps us remember them. You seem to be a lot better than I am at extracting what the grammar is doing but yes, I get confused by the lack of formal structure too. I believe it's how languages are taught at school now, but I get a bit panicky if I don't have the whole picture.

I haven't tested this, but my feeling is we are being taught useful grammar, but only a bit of useful vocabulary. I've told the story before of using a different app and being given lots of types of animals to learn. I thought it was a bit useless but we went to Venice, and they have all the Murano glass animals for sale (everywhere) and it was quite nice that I knew the Italian for most of them. I am convinced the author of the app had been to Venice.

We're off to Rome soon - Duolingo has missed the boat there because this segment is definitely concentrating on Milan.

PipneyJane

@PollyWollyDoodle enjoy Florence.  I was there in 1997.  My dominant memories are of narrow streets and amazing churches.

@Cherryfudge I’ve not been to Rome.  Hope it is lovely.  (Our visit was cancelled by Covid.)

Like you, there are times when Duolingo leaves me baffled.  I’m up to 1421 days of French but, I think it’s only in the last year or so that Duo has started explaining grammar, usually when I’ve got something wrong.  Certainly things have changed and the units are different to the ones when I started, which left me wondering why I needed to know that a whale is “une baleine”.  (Oddly, that’s the brand of salt I buy when I’m in France.). I think I’ve skipped the “this hotel is scary” unit.

I’d like lessons on verb declensions.  If you can get the verbs right, then most other parts of a sentence are easier.

- Pip



PS:  My visits to Italy have been dominated by people talking to me in Italian.  Maybe it’s my Australian accent; maybe it’s because I look Italian.  (I’m not.)  Not usually a problem since I grew up hearing Italian, but I can’t answer back. It’s like something clicks in a different part of my brain and I understand what they are saying. (My Dad’s best mate was Italian.  My earliest memories are of sitting in the kitchen at his house, “helping” his wife to make pasta.  Apparently, I spoke Italian at the time, but I don’t remember it now.)

Cherryfudge

I wonder if the scary hotels are peculiar to Italian? I don't remember them in French.

I do remember (vaguely) that the Italian for a whale is 'una balena' (feminine I think) but where on earth did I learn that? I think it came in the unit with ants and sharks, which may not have been Duolingo. Never needed it yet, but perhaps the hotel in Italy will have a scary whale?

It's fascinating that you have that background in Italian. I read somewhere that early speech physically shapes part of the throat (possibly the pharynx?) so that it becomes predisposed to be able to make certain sounds - so perhaps you are predisposed to a good Italian accent? I'm sure that the brain doesn't lose it all. 

My husband can also look Italian and gets spoken to as if he were. If you can imagine a very short Dutch person, that would be me, except that the Dutch always seem tall by British standards. I'm not at all Italian, so they kindly switch to English for me.

I dread verb declensions, but I miss them so much. I'd gladly trade una balena for the correct context of 'vorrei'

Cherryfudge

Okay, I've just finished the 'strange hotel' section. I can't remember when I've found language learning so funny, so perhaps it will stick, but I really hope I never need that combination of vocabulary!