CMS incorrect calculation and payment terms?

MaD2ko0l

Hi,

My partner has a 14-year-old daughter who has recently moved in with her father (as she didn’t like our rules etc etc) who has now put in a claim with CMS despite my partner playing ball and supporting them.

The child moved in around the end of March/early April 2021.

The CMS paperwork come through with the first payment to be made on 1st Nov 2021.

I have a couple things to ask as my partner is in a bit of a state about the situation and is not coping all that great and doesn’t know who to speak to etc.

 

First off, CMS have done the calculation on what my partner must pay which is incorrect. They took the 2019/2020 tax year instead of the 2020/2021 tax year. She earned less money in the 2020/2021 tax year as she had a second temp job in the 2019/2020 tax year.

 

She has spoken to CMS and because the difference is below there 25% threshold, they would recalculate the payments despite this being an issue on their side of things.

 

Now my partners wages are just under the taxable threshold (I cannot remember off the top of my head, but it was around £12126 p/a in the 2020/2021 year). 

When we used the CMS calculator for both those years, the figures came to these approx values:

2019/2020 = ~£150 CMS

2020/2021 = ~£120 CMS

In essence, my partner is paying an extra ~£30 per month due to the incorrect initial calculation.

 

How do we go about rectifying this as she is struggling to make ends meet on such low wages at the best of times and for her that extra monthly overpay is getting her into more debt?

 

 

My other query is regarding the payments. I know this may be subjective and things like this are said a lot, but my partner doesn’t want to be handing over the money to the father as he doesn’t use it to support the child’s needs as he is an alcoholic gambler and is in all kinds of debt (have seen and heard this with my own eyes and ears as at one point, everyone got along).

 

So, is it possible that my partner can put this money into some kind of “saver account” that the child can access in a lump sum once she is of age etc rather than paying it direct to the father?

 

If that is a no go, is it possible to not pay the father direct but still support the child financially in some way without upsetting CMS?

 

I do hope that someone can help us out here as my partner and the child’s mental health is at stake and I don’t want it to take a turn for the worse for anyone.

 

Please help.

Regards,

Martin

jjj1980

The resident parent has the right to ask CMS to do a calculation at any time, even if it only used as a basis for discussion over the maintenance that will be paid.

CMS are using the correct year’s income currently.  The final deadline for 2020/2021 tax returns is 31st January 2022 so earnings from that year won’t be used until after that time.

The money to be paid isn’t actually
meant to go the child, it’s meant to go to the resident parent to help provide for that child.  So towards a proportion of the rent/mortgage, utility bills, food costs, anything the child needs.  Not paying to the resident parent will leave a situation where they ask CMS to take over and start the case on Collect & Pay, with the applicable fees on top and an arrears balance owed.

if there are concerns about the resident’s parents abilities etc, this needs dealing with separately.  Possibly by way of the involvement of the school’s Child Safety Officer or Social Services.  

MaD2ko0l

So even though the 2020/2021 tax year has been done and my partner has her p60 and what not, then my partner still has to struggle until end of Jan or end of April? to get a recalculation to get the correct amount?

If that's the case then does it get back dated or something so the following year offsets the over payment amount?



And although i know that the payment doesn't go directly to the child...the father tells the child that its her money which then causes the child to kick off at my partner which causes issues and the child doesn't understand nor should she be told this stuff as it has nothing to do with the child directly.


So i assume that's just a flat out no on putting the money away in a child's account until she gets of age?



Also on the last note, there are a lot of concerns about the fathers abilities to support the child and all of the official services have let the child down in supporting her.

Since she has moved in with her dad, she has gone well off the rails. Social services don't want to know...forward thinking birmingham dont want to know...her school don't want to know (although she flat out refuses to go to school).

The child has some serious mental health issues but no one will help and her dad just feeds her mental health issues and delusions.

but i digress, that's a whole other mind bender of a conversation :-(

HadEnoughOfCSA

I find the way that CMS works borders on ridiculous most of the time, so my advice is more for the girl - speak to your local Family Solutions team in order to try to support her. Keep in touch with her head of year and/or the Attendance Officer at her secondary school. It may be the case of getting police involved in order to protect her - Social Services should not be able to simply say that they don't want to know. Keep as much on record as possible.

MaD2ko0l

My partner cannot speak to the school because the father/child has taken my partner off of the contact list so the school will not speak to my partner about anything.

We have heard on the great vine that attendance officers have just started to go out but the child doesn't open the door to them or the child is out doing god knows what with god knows who.

My partner called the social services in the first place and nothing was ever done and now they wont speak to my partner about anything as the father/child have told them not to...this is the same as forward thinking Birmingham.
My partner has basically been shut out of knowing what is going on so she only hears anything from the father and child occasionally but from their track records and conflicting stories...they are all lies which makes it even more difficult to know whats going on.

My partner had also called the police on a few occasions and all they do is a "welfare check" which doesn't seem to amount to anything. The child has also called the police on her father at some point as well.

My partner has kept as much information and as much hearsay as possible but recently most information has stopped flowing her way unless poop hits the fan.

again...the other week the child told us she had a black eye due to an altercation with her father and apparently a social worker has seen it (hearsay from the child).


The kicker...when my partner spoke with one of the many social services workers assigned (there was about 6 different workers)...they said and i quote:

The child is safe in dads care

and the best one:

This is normal behavior for a 14 year old

I don't know about you but i'm sure that 14 year old's are not hanging around on the streets until stupid o'clock/roaming the country on the train when they should be at school/getting involved with drugs/casual sex/fighting/"running away" and god knows what else.

Totally bewildered

/rant

ZaSa1418

The school can not refuse to give information to your partner as she has parental responsibility, neither can the school remove your partner from the child's details / contact list unless there is a court order. I suggest she goes to the school and explains this to them. She can easily print off the literature regarding parental responsibility to take with her. Tell her not to leave until they put right their incorrect actions. 

jjj1980

MaD2ko0l said:

So even though the 2020/2021 tax year has been done and my partner has her p60 and what not, then my partner still has to struggle until end of Jan or end of April? to get a recalculation to get the correct amount?

If that's the case then does it get back dated or something so the following year offsets the over payment amount?



And although i know that the payment doesn't go directly to the child...the father tells the child that its her money which then causes the child to kick off at my partner which causes issues and the child doesn't understand nor should she be told this stuff as it has nothing to do with the child directly.


So i assume that's just a flat out no on putting the money away in a child's account until she gets of age?



Also on the last note, there are a lot of concerns about the fathers abilities to support the child and all of the official services have let the child down in supporting her.

Since she has moved in with her dad, she has gone well off the rails. Social services don't want to know...forward thinking birmingham dont want to know...her school don't want to know (although she flat out refuses to go to school).

The child has some serious mental health issues but no one will help and her dad just feeds her mental health issues and delusions.

but i digress, that's a whole other mind bender of a conversation :-(

No, it doesn’t get back dated as there isn’t any overpayment to offset, each year is calculated by using the previous tax years earnings. So the assessment for 2021 is based on tax year 2019/2020 and 2022’s assessment will be based on tax year 2020/2021.  The only way there could be an overpayment is if your partner disputes the earnings held by HMRC for 2019/2020 but it’s not an easy task as she will have either submitted them herself if self-employed or due to being higher earner or they will have been provided by her employer as actual salary received.  

That’s correct, absolute no to putting the money aside as the Receiving Parent can ask CMS to move the case to Collect & Pay as it will be classed as being in arrears.  Which then incurs and extra fee if 20% of the assessment amount on top.  Continued non-payment will then lead to a Liability Order being secured which can be enforced by either seizure of bank accounts funds, compulsory DEO via employers if employed, charges against property or instruction of bailiffs.

Fir the child safety issues, your partner needs to try again with all the relevant authorities including child’s GP.  Or submit an application for custody to the court based on the safety concerns.