FIRE? Unless you hate or are bad at your job, isn't work the best part of life?

lisyloo

nigelbb said:

QrizB said:

RogerIrvine said:

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

I guess the question is, do you ever intend to retire? And if so, under what circumstances? Typically it's one of:

• When you physically can't work any more, or
  
• When you have alternative sources of income and have something you'd rather do with your time.
  

There's nothing special about state pension age other than you gain one alternative source of income (the state pension). Some people might need to work past SPA, others will be financially independent before SPA and so can choose to work or not.

A nice bonus of working past state pension age is that you no longer pay National insurance so you get an instant 10% pay rise which in combination with your state pension can allow you to reduce your hours.

Yes it is but at 67 it’s not going to be possible everyone certainly not full time.
both my parents became effectively medically retired around their SPA at 65 so it wou”dnt be unreasonable for me to expect similar expect my SPA has gone up and I’m not convinced my generation is healthier.
my completely anecdotal estimate is around 50% won’t be in any shape to work full time and employers don’t want people who aren’t reliable and/or have lots of healthcare appointments.

lisyloo

Dazza1902 said:

zagfles said:

Once you've got yourself into the position of being able to afford to retire, then your job can become your hobby. That's pretty much what I've done, and I would imagine the likes of Alex Ferguson have too. I doubt he's doing it for the money. So plan for FIRE, but the the RE as an option rather than an aim. The FI is the the important bit, then the RE becomes a choice, and you're no longer a "wage slave". The pressure is off at work.I don't need to worry about appraisals, about redundancies, about pleasing the boss. I avoid boring stuff at work, I refuse to do some stuff I'm really meant to, they know the score, they need me so they're not going to sack me, and if do, I don't really care.

Totally agree, I shall feel different about work once I have sufficient means and choice .
 I was reading an article which suggested that with a declining workforce , older people will need to stay in work otherwise economies will suffer. So will retiree's be guilted into work?
 I'm interested to know what proportion of workers expect/ in the position , to retire significantly early ? It's the goal for most of us on this forum, but doubt that we are the norm.

I’d be interested to know what strategy is going to be used to lure people back.
if I was a health professional in a pandemic I can see the pull, but anyone who works as say a HGV driver is probably not going to come back without a very good incentive and once you’ve got “enough” it’s going to have to be more than just a little payrise to give up the freedom.
I like my job, but sometime I hanker for the freedom of going on holiday when I want and getting up when I want sometimes.

I think there is a Cohort now that I’m lucky to be a part of (early 50s) that had no university fees/debts, bought houses and some have Db pensions. Also didn’t incur an expensive divorce. I think it’s a minority and will decline because of a worse outlook in terms of the costs of higher education, lower returns, property costs etc.

kinger101

I think the truth is many people get promoted into jobs that are less enjoyable, but they plod along with it because it gives them the opportunity to retire early.  So the choice might be work until 67 in a job one enjoys or until late 50s in something less interesting and more stressful.

Albermarle

nigelbb said:

QrizB said:

RogerIrvine said:

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

I guess the question is, do you ever intend to retire? And if so, under what circumstances? Typically it's one of:

• When you physically can't work any more, or
  
• When you have alternative sources of income and have something you'd rather do with your time.
  

There's nothing special about state pension age other than you gain one alternative source of income (the state pension). Some people might need to work past SPA, others will be financially independent before SPA and so can choose to work or not.

A nice bonus of working past state pension age is that you no longer pay National insurance so you get an instant 10% pay rise which in combination with your state pension can allow you to reduce your hours.

This will change following the recent changes .
As part of the government’s health and social care reforms, around 1.3 million pensioners over the age of 65 who earn more than £9,568, will be paying national insurance contributions on their earnings for the first time.

LV_426

kinger101 said:

I think the truth is many people get promoted into jobs that are less enjoyable, but they plod along with it because it gives them the opportunity to retire early.  So the choice might be work until 67 in a job one enjoys or until late 50s in something less interesting and more stressful.

That's why I never pursued promotion. I like coding, it's fun. Why would I want a team leader or manager job that involved not doing that? Haven't done too badly though. I'm in a position to retire at 55. Although I'm not going to do this.

lisyloo

ajfielden said:

kinger101 said:

I think the truth is many people get promoted into jobs that are less enjoyable, but they plod along with it because it gives them the opportunity to retire early.  So the choice might be work until 67 in a job one enjoys or until late 50s in something less interesting and more stressful.

That's why I never pursued promotion. I like coding, it's fun. Why would I want a team leader or manager job that involved not doing that? Haven't done too badly though. I'm in a position to retire at 55. Although I'm not going to do this.

Me too.
i love my work but don’t want to stop at 55.
i will try and work with my employer to have the holidays I want.
i think they are enlightened enough to work with me on that.

noclaf

I am 40, work in financial services and am very aware of how quickly the landscape can change. I tend to agree with an earlier poster that by 50 and above jobs might become more difficult to find/ hold down, lot of unknowns but there does seem to be ageism that creeps in depending on the type of role and organisation in addition to the pace of change and advances that will remove some jobs e.g: automation, AI etc.
It definately play's on my mind to the extent I wonder 'what could I see myself doing next' if I ever leave financial services. I don't hate or love my job, some of it is more interesting and other bits mundane , the hours are long and stress only goes up and up with more progression and responsibilities. 
I was a carer for the best part of 10 years for a parent, it meant that I didn't really push as hard as I could of on the career front. Not to come across as arrogant or crass, I think if career had been my sole focus and everything else and everyone else pushed to the side with minimal responsibilities, I would of been on a significantly higher salary by now maybe six figures but at what cost to my mental health and to the parent I was a carer for? Family and my carer responsibilities came first, period.
One day when the finances are in a more comfortable state, I'd like to think about doing something else more meaningful, not sure what that looks like yet but it would be nice to do something I definately enjoy...and less stressfull! Also more charity and giving back to others.....much of my progress and small 'wins' in life were achieved with mentors and friends help and guidance along the way...pay it forward etc.

Albermarle

ajfielden said:

kinger101 said:

I think the truth is many people get promoted into jobs that are less enjoyable, but they plod along with it because it gives them the opportunity to retire early.  So the choice might be work until 67 in a job one enjoys or until late 50s in something less interesting and more stressful.

That's why I never pursued promotion. I like coding, it's fun. Why would I want a team leader or manager job that involved not doing that? Haven't done too badly though. I'm in a position to retire at 55. Although I'm not going to do this.

I found the main problem with promotion , was managing other people . I was relieved when technology , working from home etc reduced the number of staff needed and I could revert to being a Lone Ranger !

kinger101

ajfielden said:

kinger101 said:

I think the truth is many people get promoted into jobs that are less enjoyable, but they plod along with it because it gives them the opportunity to retire early.  So the choice might be work until 67 in a job one enjoys or until late 50s in something less interesting and more stressful.

That's why I never pursued promotion. I like coding, it's fun. Why would I want a team leader or manager job that involved not doing that? Haven't done too badly though. I'm in a position to retire at 55. Although I'm not going to do this.

That's great and probably easier to do as a coder.  It's not easy at every employer though as some will regard wanting to stand still with suspicion or at the very least, as a significant disadvantage.  Most organizations want a succession plan in place to cope with retirement/resignations etc and there are certain roles where lack of desire for management will be regarded as a problem. 

I might have got by at my place by keeping management duties to a minimum, but I'd probably be earning less than half what I am now and regarded as significantly less of an asset.  There's definitely more desire for me to retire early now though, as I don't want to be there to state retirement age.  

 

Retireinten

kinger101 said:

I think the truth is many people get promoted into jobs that are less enjoyable, but they plod along with it because it gives them the opportunity to retire early.  So the choice might be work until 67 in a job one enjoys or until late 50s in something less interesting and more stressful.

As others have said FI is the important bit for me, because it creates choice. I may or may not retire in 7 years at 53 when I reach FI (assuming no major disasters) but I expect I will downsize the job to something more enjoyable. 

This statement rings true too. There are bits of my job I enjoy and also bits I don't, but they come with the sort of job that funds FIRE.  I really don't like peoole management if I'm entirely honest or the politics that come with the environment I work in.  I could make a change and may well do at some point and stretch the time to FI, but for now it's manageable.