'Abandoned' car question with a twist

Lulu58

A car was dumped in the car park of our block of flats a few months ago.  The car park is on private land and each leaseholder owns a share of the freehold which includes the car park, garages etc.

It's been parked badly but is not in the way of anything as such.  The inside of the car is a tip and looks like someone was living in it.  It has a SORN and no MOT.

After a bit of digging we found out that the car may be owned by the son of a lease/freeholder.  The alleged car owner is a difficult character to deal with and possibly has mental health issues.  He has told us that the car is registered to him at his father's flat and there's nothing we can do to about it to get it moved etc.  He doesn't live in the flat as far as we know, and he may have been living in the car.  We are reluctant to involve his father because he is elderly and very unwell.

Is there any way we can establish whether he is the registered owner of the vehicle, and what the registered address is?  I've looked at the DVLA website and understand we may be able to make a request under 'Reasonable grounds' but this could take a long time and we may not be successful. 

If he is the car owner and it is registered to him at the flat but he is not living there, is there anything we can do about that?  

We've asked him to move the vehicle several times and he keeps making promises but does nothing.  

Reading other posts on MSE it seems the police and council wouldn't get involved.  The car park is down a steep slope so it would be impossible to push the car out of the car park even if we wanted to.

The lease is from the 1960s and doesn't really cover this sort of situation so we can't invoke any covenants from that.

Sandtree

Q441: Someone has left a car on my land, what should I do? (askthe.police.uk) 
Abandoned vehicles: local authority responsibilities - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

According to the police and the Gov local councils have to deal with abandoned cars including on private land, but the police acknowledge indirectly that there can be challenges in getting them to do so.

I'd still contact the local council in the first instance in case you are one of the lucky ones.

The DVLA may well be willing to sell you the details of the owner in the circumstances, but before you go down that path, what will you do if its proven to be the person that already said its theirs? Could be spending time, and a small amount of money, to leave you in the position you are already in.

Grumpy_chap

I've never been involved in a situation like the one the OP describes, but the following link suggests it may be worth contacting the local authority:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/abandoned-vehicles-council-responsibilities

Some local authorities have an online reporting system, so it may not even need the OP to take a massive amount of active effort.

theoretica

Does the father have entitlement to a parking space and does he use it?  If yes and no then the simplest would be to get hold of some skates and neatly put the car into dad's parking space.

Norman_Castle

What does the freehold and leasehold say about who can use the car park and how it can be used. Any restrictions about unused cars being there? Is it likely the father would allow his son to leave his car there? If yes then there's probably little you, the police or council can do about it. Ask him to park it properly if that's the problem.

jimjames

theoretica said:

Does the father have entitlement to a parking space and does he use it?  If yes and no then the simplest would be to get hold of some skates and neatly put the car into dad's parking space.

I was thinking the same thing. If the father is elderly and unwell does he use a car space himself?

Lulu58

Sandtree said:

Q441: Someone has left a car on my land, what should I do? (askthe.police.uk) 
Abandoned vehicles: local authority responsibilities - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

According to the police and the Gov local councils have to deal with abandoned cars including on private land, but the police acknowledge indirectly that there can be challenges in getting them to do so.

I'd still contact the local council in the first instance in case you are one of the lucky ones.

We've reported it to the police. They weren't interested and told us to contact the council.

The council's web page says we can report if but only if the vehicle has been abandoned, otherwise not. We don't know if it has been abandoned because we can't prove who owns it, only that a leaseholders son (who possibly has mental health issues) has said it's his.

We were thinking if we could find out who actually owns the car we could deal with it accordingly.  If it doesn't belong to the son we could report it to the council as abandoned. If not, we have a different problem as his father owns a flat in the building.

Is there any other option to find out the registered owners details other than the DVLA? I've looked online and most of the companies saying they can give you these details for a fee actually only give you the number of previous owners and last registered owner.

Lulu58

theoretica said:

Does the father have entitlement to a parking space and does he use it?  

Each leaseholder owns a garage and that's where the father parks his car. The car park is for general use, including visitors. The car has been parked without moving for 2 months now.

onashoestring

It is the council’s responsibility to decide if it is abandoned, they can make the DVLA checks - one of the considerations is it’s stationary for a significant amount of time . 

So you can report it to them stating that is has been parked without moving for 2 months and is not taxed and you believe it has been abandoned . If it has significantly damage run down or unroadworthy, for example has flat tyres, missing wheels or broken windows - mention that too. They can then track down the owner . 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/abandoned-vehicles-council-responsibilities

Lulu58

Norman_Castle said:

What does the freehold and leasehold say about who can use the car park and how it can be used. Any restrictions about unused cars being there? Is it likely the father would allow his son to leave his car there? 

The lease contains nothing specific about the car park. There is a general annoyance clause relating 'the premises' which includes the buildings, grounds etc. 

Another clause relates to not causing an obstruction to other leaseholders, deliveries etc.

Leaseholders (tenants) have the right to use the private road, paths etc for domestic and recreation purposes but not for any purposes likely to cause offence or a nuisance to other leaseholders.

We are reluctant to invoke any of these as we would have to write to his father as the leaseholder and this would cause him a great deal of upset and distress.

Apparently the family, including the father, do not get on with the son but he may say he has allowed his son to park in the grounds rather than go up against him.

Grumpy_chap

Lulu58 said:

The council's web page says we can report if but only if the vehicle has been abandoned, otherwise not. We don't know if it has been abandoned

We were thinking if we could find out who actually owns the car we could deal with it accordingly.  If it doesn't belong to the son we could report it to the council as abandoned. 

It does not matter who owns the car and whether it is abandoned or not is a matter of opinion (firstly) and then fact (as can be established).

Do you think the vehicle has been abandoned?

Lulu58 said:

A car was dumped in the car park of our block of flats a few months ago.  

It's been parked badly but is not in the way of anything as such.  The inside of the car is a tip and looks like someone was living in it.  It has a SORN and no MOT.

Put those facts together, would a reasonable person think the car is abandoned?

If so, stop over-thinking the issue and simply log the online report to the Council.
If your Council is anything like mine, they won't do any effort to locate the owner but will check the SORN / MOT status online, then visit the car and if they agree it is in a state simply apply a 30-day notice to claim the vehicle or risk losing it.
The Council will have a subsequent process, but that sticker is usually sufficient to resolve the majority of dumped vehicles.