'Real living wage' rises to £9.90/hr from today

Apintplease

Jillanddy said:

Apintplease said:

Jillanddy said:

I sympathise. And I know you were asked.  But that is all irrelevant. It still comes down to the fact that you are expecting someone else to fix this. Whether that be your government,  your employer, or the taxpayer.  What are you doing to fix it? Are you in a union?  What are you doing to fight for better wages and conditions,  for yourself and everyone else? 

It was me who had the balls to ask for this pay rise

Im not asking anyone to sort anything for me, nor am I asking for sympathy ,I was just pointing out the fact that its not easy to live on NMW or Living wage  and I did just post the reply as I was asked where my money went because obviously I was peeing it up a wall

Im happy in my work, I wake up happy, stay happy every day and come home happy - if bloody knackered  

Another couple of years and I can retire and I shall then be well off, because I havent always worked in NMW jobs, Ive only be doing these since illness made me have to revaluate what was important to me. I do have a very healthy NHS pension waiting for me, full state pension plus a private pension. Wont be rich but I will be a lot better off then I am now

And that's great you have been able to make those choices. And you are right - it isn't easy to live on it. It isn't supposed to be though, was my point. You actually argued that those who advocate it should try living on it. That's actually something different than what you are now saying. I advocate a Living Wage (the Real Living Wage). I am not suggesting that is easy to live on. I am "advocating" that nobody should have to live on less. No matter how you organise society and employment, there will always be those who earn less and those who earn more. We can fill many nights arguing about what is or should be valued as work. But it is a measure of a society that it ensures that the most basic needs can be met, and we are still a long way off that. You are right that having a private pension is a life-saver - people who have worked all their lives on much lower wages than we have these days retire into poverty because a state pension is significantly less than is needed to live on. 

Nope, not easy to live on but doable and mum will put her hand in her pocket now and then so things aren't so bleak, she will buy her cats food and me the odd bottle of scotch

I cant see how anyone can live on less. Back in '86 I got given HA housing, a wee studio flat, £16 a week - plus council tax ( or rather that one MT put in place, cant mind the name ) water, gas, electric and then common tax ( lived within the boundaries of a royal park )

For the first month I was there I was on the dole, and because I didnt understand the complicated rules on moving areas and signing on, I was what is now called sanctioned and I had just over £9 a week to live on - that was tough

Then I found out what it was like to work 5 jobs a week to keep a roof over the head -one of them NHS which back in the day paid pennies, you stayed for the pension, which I did do until my health was so compromised I had to leave

I think you read me wrong or I read you wrong. I feel personally that I manage really well on my wage. Yes this year is tough - fuel bills have now apparently pushed me into fuel poverty . I never feel poor though. Im not bemoaning my situation, I can change it IF I want to make a trade - health or wealth

What I was trying to say is it is really hard to be living on those types of wages. Even myself who owns my own home, finds there is very little left at the end of the week and whilst Im old and have everything paid, with some savings - not a lot - for someone who is starting out, with children perhaps, not a chance. I work with a lass who is renting, has 2 boys ( young adults ) at home, shes having to do a 50 hour week to keep her head above water. I personally have the education and experience ( if not the health ) to possibly get a slighlty bettered paid job, she hasn't  

bermudianmark

The NLW is pretty close to the real living wage, I suspect the rates will be the same next year once the NLW gets to £10 or above.

NCC1701-A

Apintplease said:

Takeaway_Addict said:

Apintplease said:

Id love to see all the advocates of living wage live on it

Im between NMW and NLW - 9.41 an hour and I dont have a spare penny anywhere and Im grateful for my wage as NMW is the norm around here

I work 30 hours a week so work that out yourselves, Im fortunate I have no mortgage to pay, thats paid. If I had to pay rent or mortgage, Id be looking at extra help

We ( where I work ) are praying that when the NMW goes up to 9.50 in April, that we have enough work that our boss can once again pay that bit more to us. Things are tough in our sector - food production for the hospitality sector  - we are being hit very hard with the restrictions 

£9.90 is seriously peanuts. Too much to claim UC, but you are seriously just existing, not living

So you get £1100 a month and with no mortgage/rent are struggling- where does it go if you don't mind me asking?

Well lets see, Diesel is £1.46 a litre - £30 a week now to get to and from work and into town for the shopping, health care etc
Food shop for three adults, one cat, one dog is 40 to 60 quid a week
Heating oil - is up to 50p a litre - 4000 litres a year -£40 a week
Electric is now up to £80 a month -£20 a week
Smokeless ovals now for the winter are also up - £30 a week
Road tax and insurance , mot and servicing  - £10 a week
TV licence £3
House insurances , pet insurances, life insurances - About £30
broadband/phone line £7 a week
Phone contract £5

Dentist £1 a week 
Hair dresser £3

Around £220 a week before I think about clothes, leisure etc

I take home £257

Cost of living in NI is a lot higher then on the mainland. Being very rural means I need a car to get anywhere - theres no public transport. We dont pay water charges but we rely on oil for heating which is paid upfront . Even with keeping the heating down as low as possible and only on for a few hours a day, we need 4 fills a year and this year its double what it was this time last year. We never did have the options of loads of electric companies, Im on the lowest tariff as it is but its going up another 24% next month. All solid fuel is up in price, luckily we felled a few trees last year so some of that is ready for burning this year. Fuel costs are rocketing and thats taking a huge part of my income.

I only make that £208 a week, and that's only for winter, most of the year would be another £30 a week, so £410 a month over.  

However, if you worked 35 hours rather than 30, you'd double your winter disposable income as well as contributing more to the exchequer to help others.  

RogerBareford

Apintplease said:

Takeaway_Addict said:

Apintplease said:

Id love to see all the advocates of living wage live on it

Im between NMW and NLW - 9.41 an hour and I dont have a spare penny anywhere and Im grateful for my wage as NMW is the norm around here

I work 30 hours a week so work that out yourselves, Im fortunate I have no mortgage to pay, thats paid. If I had to pay rent or mortgage, Id be looking at extra help

We ( where I work ) are praying that when the NMW goes up to 9.50 in April, that we have enough work that our boss can once again pay that bit more to us. Things are tough in our sector - food production for the hospitality sector  - we are being hit very hard with the restrictions 

£9.90 is seriously peanuts. Too much to claim UC, but you are seriously just existing, not living

So you get £1100 a month and with no mortgage/rent are struggling- where does it go if you don't mind me asking?

Well lets see, Diesel is £1.46 a litre - £30 a week now to get to and from work and into town for the shopping, health care etc
Food shop for three adults, one cat, one dog is 40 to 60 quid a week
Heating oil - is up to 50p a litre - 4000 litres a year -£40 a week
Electric is now up to £80 a month -£20 a week
Smokeless ovals now for the winter are also up - £30 a week
Road tax and insurance , mot and servicing  - £10 a week
TV licence £3
House insurances , pet insurances, life insurances - About £30
broadband/phone line £7 a week
Phone contract £5

Dentist £1 a week 
Hair dresser £3

Around £220 a week before I think about clothes, leisure etc

I take home £257

Cost of living in NI is a lot higher then on the mainland. Being very rural means I need a car to get anywhere - theres no public transport. We dont pay water charges but we rely on oil for heating which is paid upfront . Even with keeping the heating down as low as possible and only on for a few hours a day, we need 4 fills a year and this year its double what it was this time last year. We never did have the options of loads of electric companies, Im on the lowest tariff as it is but its going up another 24% next month. All solid fuel is up in price, luckily we felled a few trees last year so some of that is ready for burning this year. Fuel costs are rocketing and thats taking a huge part of my income.

So your only working 30 hours a week and your supporting three adults on that wage which is pretty good going.

The whole idea of the living wage is for you to be working full time and it supports 1 adult person.

So if the three of you were working full time at the living wage you would have more than enough money coming into your household.

The solution seems to increase your hours to full time and get the other two adults in your household to get jobs and pay their way.

Apintplease

RogerBareford said:

Apintplease said:

Takeaway_Addict said:

Apintplease said:

Id love to see all the advocates of living wage live on it

Im between NMW and NLW - 9.41 an hour and I dont have a spare penny anywhere and Im grateful for my wage as NMW is the norm around here

I work 30 hours a week so work that out yourselves, Im fortunate I have no mortgage to pay, thats paid. If I had to pay rent or mortgage, Id be looking at extra help

We ( where I work ) are praying that when the NMW goes up to 9.50 in April, that we have enough work that our boss can once again pay that bit more to us. Things are tough in our sector - food production for the hospitality sector  - we are being hit very hard with the restrictions 

£9.90 is seriously peanuts. Too much to claim UC, but you are seriously just existing, not living

So you get £1100 a month and with no mortgage/rent are struggling- where does it go if you don't mind me asking?

Well lets see, Diesel is £1.46 a litre - £30 a week now to get to and from work and into town for the shopping, health care etc
Food shop for three adults, one cat, one dog is 40 to 60 quid a week
Heating oil - is up to 50p a litre - 4000 litres a year -£40 a week
Electric is now up to £80 a month -£20 a week
Smokeless ovals now for the winter are also up - £30 a week
Road tax and insurance , mot and servicing  - £10 a week
TV licence £3
House insurances , pet insurances, life insurances - About £30
broadband/phone line £7 a week
Phone contract £5

Dentist £1 a week 
Hair dresser £3

Around £220 a week before I think about clothes, leisure etc

I take home £257

Cost of living in NI is a lot higher then on the mainland. Being very rural means I need a car to get anywhere - theres no public transport. We dont pay water charges but we rely on oil for heating which is paid upfront . Even with keeping the heating down as low as possible and only on for a few hours a day, we need 4 fills a year and this year its double what it was this time last year. We never did have the options of loads of electric companies, Im on the lowest tariff as it is but its going up another 24% next month. All solid fuel is up in price, luckily we felled a few trees last year so some of that is ready for burning this year. Fuel costs are rocketing and thats taking a huge part of my income.

So your only working 30 hours a week and your supporting three adults on that wage which is pretty good going.

The whole idea of the living wage is for you to be working full time and it supports 1 adult person.

So if the three of you were working full time at the living wage you would have more than enough money coming into your household.

The solution seems to increase your hours to full time and get the other two adults in your household to get jobs and pay their way.

I will tell my 86 year old mother to get of her bum and go work will I?

And Im more then happy on my 30 hours thank you very much - unless of course you want me to go back onto the sick? And come the new year I will be dropping back down to 25 as 30 is too much for me, Im having to take stronger pain relief almost on a daily basis, rather then just on the real bad days

You have no idea 

RogerBareford

Apintplease said:

RogerBareford said:

Apintplease said:

Takeaway_Addict said:

Apintplease said:

Id love to see all the advocates of living wage live on it

Im between NMW and NLW - 9.41 an hour and I dont have a spare penny anywhere and Im grateful for my wage as NMW is the norm around here

I work 30 hours a week so work that out yourselves, Im fortunate I have no mortgage to pay, thats paid. If I had to pay rent or mortgage, Id be looking at extra help

We ( where I work ) are praying that when the NMW goes up to 9.50 in April, that we have enough work that our boss can once again pay that bit more to us. Things are tough in our sector - food production for the hospitality sector  - we are being hit very hard with the restrictions 

£9.90 is seriously peanuts. Too much to claim UC, but you are seriously just existing, not living

So you get £1100 a month and with no mortgage/rent are struggling- where does it go if you don't mind me asking?

Well lets see, Diesel is £1.46 a litre - £30 a week now to get to and from work and into town for the shopping, health care etc
Food shop for three adults, one cat, one dog is 40 to 60 quid a week
Heating oil - is up to 50p a litre - 4000 litres a year -£40 a week
Electric is now up to £80 a month -£20 a week
Smokeless ovals now for the winter are also up - £30 a week
Road tax and insurance , mot and servicing  - £10 a week
TV licence £3
House insurances , pet insurances, life insurances - About £30
broadband/phone line £7 a week
Phone contract £5

Dentist £1 a week 
Hair dresser £3

Around £220 a week before I think about clothes, leisure etc

I take home £257

Cost of living in NI is a lot higher then on the mainland. Being very rural means I need a car to get anywhere - theres no public transport. We dont pay water charges but we rely on oil for heating which is paid upfront . Even with keeping the heating down as low as possible and only on for a few hours a day, we need 4 fills a year and this year its double what it was this time last year. We never did have the options of loads of electric companies, Im on the lowest tariff as it is but its going up another 24% next month. All solid fuel is up in price, luckily we felled a few trees last year so some of that is ready for burning this year. Fuel costs are rocketing and thats taking a huge part of my income.

So your only working 30 hours a week and your supporting three adults on that wage which is pretty good going.

The whole idea of the living wage is for you to be working full time and it supports 1 adult person.

So if the three of you were working full time at the living wage you would have more than enough money coming into your household.

The solution seems to increase your hours to full time and get the other two adults in your household to get jobs and pay their way.

I will tell my 86 year old mother to get of her bum and go work will I?

And Im more then happy on my 30 hours thank you very much - unless of course you want me to go back onto the sick? And come the new year I will be dropping back down to 25 as 30 is too much for me, Im having to take stronger pain relief almost on a daily basis, rather then just on the real bad days

You have no idea 

Well then at that age she should have a pension and as a respectable adult surely she should be contributing to the finances.

What about the other adult why arn't they contributing?

It sounds like your going to a job that is physically hurting you and struggling with money because two adults arn't contributing to the houshold finances which isn't a nice situation to be in at all!

I'm not saying this to be mean i'm saying this because you shouldn't be expected to take care of three adults on one low wage and hurt yourself doing it; nobody should be in that situation. Don't break yourself doing hard labour all your life and come to regret it when you manage to retire, i've seen people in that situation and it's not a good thing at all.

But your original comment on here was:

"Id love to see all the advocates of living wage live on it"

So i was making the point that your working less than fully time and earning less than the living wage plus also supporting 3 adults on that wage so i'm not surprised your struggling but it doesn't have anything to do with the living wage amount.

The living wage is £9.90 per hour full timer per adult. That works out to be £2,648.7 take home a month for two people or £3,973.05 for three people.

So as you can see a very different situation to yours.

RogerBareford

Jillanddy said:

@RogerBareford Wow. Just wow. We live in a society which,  even given so called equality,  is based on a nuclear family unit in which (usually) women do (free) childcare and then (free) elderly relatives care, whilst a man goes to work and supports them all.  Where on earth did your get the idea that the national living wage is supposed to be "per adult" and can you provide an official link proving that?

I'm not poor.  I've said that.  But I work with poor and deprived communities every single day of my life.  And you are being delusional if this represents your true belief. Delusional and divorced from reality. The poorer you are, the harder it is to support the elderly and the young and the disabled.  Yet the more likely it is to that you ARE expected to support them.  

If the "living wage" was supposed to be enough to support an eldery realtive, children and a parter with one person working full time then it  would be much higher.

But reading the following document (https://www.livingwage.org.uk/sites/default/files/Calculating the Real Living Wage_0.pdf) where they give details of how they calculate it, they say:

"We assume all adults in the calculation work full time – 37.5 hours per week"

So that means two people with children will be working full time and any adult "children" will be working full time.

They also base it on 37.5 hours a week so slightly more than i used in my calculations earlier.

Plus there is no mention of supporting an elderly non working relative in the calculaitons.

So i'm not being "delusional" i'm just saying how the "living wage" is calculated and what factors are taken into account.

If someone is living with other non working adults and expected to support them all with their wage alone that is completely unfair on them and nobody should be in that position is what i'm saying.

RogerBareford

Jillanddy said:

RogerBareford said:

Jillanddy said:

@RogerBareford Wow. Just wow. We live in a society which,  even given so called equality,  is based on a nuclear family unit in which (usually) women do (free) childcare and then (free) elderly relatives care, whilst a man goes to work and supports them all.  Where on earth did your get the idea that the national living wage is supposed to be "per adult" and can you provide an official link proving that?

I'm not poor.  I've said that.  But I work with poor and deprived communities every single day of my life.  And you are being delusional if this represents your true belief. Delusional and divorced from reality. The poorer you are, the harder it is to support the elderly and the young and the disabled.  Yet the more likely it is to that you ARE expected to support them.  

If the "living wage" was supposed to be enough to support an eldery realtive, children and a parter with one person working full time then it  would be much higher.

But reading the following document (https://www.livingwage.org.uk/sites/default/files/Calculating the Real Living Wage_0.pdf) where they give details of how they calculate it, they say:

"We assume all adults in the calculation work full time – 37.5 hours per week"

So that means two people with children will be working full time and any adult "children" will be working full time.

They also base it on 37.5 hours a week so slightly more than i used in my calculations earlier.

Plus there is no mention of supporting an elderly non working relative in the calculaitons.

So i'm not being "delusional" i'm just saying how the "living wage" is calculated and what factors are taken into account.

If someone is living with other non working adults and expected to support them all with their wage alone that is completely unfair on them and nobody should be in that position is what i'm saying.

Sorry but (a) the link doesn't work and (b) the link is to the Living Wage Foundation and is about the Real Living Wage and not the National Living Wage. The two are very different - as I explained earlier. 

I haven't read the document as the link doesn't work - but I am astonished that anyone would be so naive as to think that the world consists of only working people, no unemployed, no young or elderly dependants, no adults with disabilities, and no familial obligations whatsoever. I very much doubt that is what they are saying - but it is what you are saying. People cannot - or should not - walk away from their family simply because they are too poor to contribute. Therein lies a society I do not want to live in. Nor should anyone else.

I am slighlty confused by the point you are making?. This thread is about the "Real Living Wage" as stated in the title so that's what i'm reffering too.

I am certainly not saying the world on consists only of working people. I'm saying that the "Real Living Wage" is the minimum that has been calculated for people to "live" and that is based on all adults working.

"Apintplease" was saying they don't beleive it is enough to live on so i made the point that i'm not surprised they struggle as they work less than full time hours and have another adult not working and contributing and an elderly relative not contributing any of their pension towards household expenses according to their figures.

So if only one adult is working in a household at a "real living wage" income or less then any other adults need to be contributing their fair share of money from any disability benefits, pensions or actively looking for a job if they are able to work otherwise it's not fair and they are going to struggle.

I don't understand why you seem to have a problem with me saying people should be getting more money if they are in a situation where they earn less than a "real living wage" per adult.