Unreasonable working travel request 18hours

Manxman_in_exile

getmore4less said:

AskAsk said:

TELLIT01 said:

AskAsk said:

elsien said:

AskAsk said:

where i work, people often travel this far at least once a week.  they don't get hotel stay but they can claim travel expense and they often use the train as it is faster.  you will probably find that if you got the train, it wouldn't take you 6 hours.

i think they should pay you travel expense but if it is not a regular occurence and just a one off then i don't think it is a huge problem.

i myself have had to travel 5 hours or more to meetings at short notice and i only get travel expense re-imbursed.

Even as a one off, a 6 hour day with 12 hours of driving just isn’t safe. I’m guessing your meetings don’t last for 6 hours?

In the OPs position I’d be comparing the cost/length of a train journey at short notice plus time back to the cost of a hotel and then seeing how their budget stacks up. 

the one i was thinking of was about 4 - 5 hours.  the OP doesn't have to drive as he could get the train then a taxi from the nearest train station and get re-imbursement for travel.

the only time i got hotel stay was when the meetings extended over more than one day.

The OP hasn't said either where he lives or where he has to travel to so how can you possibly know that there is a train service which would get him to where he needs to be, at the time he needs to be there?

the train may not get him door to door but there is a busy train network in the UK so it will get him near then he could get a taxi at either end or drive to the nearest train station from his home and park the car there then get the train for the onward journey.  there will be means of public transport anywhere in the UK even if it means you have to do some of the journey by taxi.

The train network is useless for a lot of people for short and long trips unless you live close to one of the routes and want to get to a place not far from a stop on that route.

Try  Swindon to Glasgow to be there before midday a ~6hr drive.

Correct.

Norwich to Liverpool (a journey I have made frequently) would be just under 5 hours by road (not including rest breaks) but by train would almost certainly be more than 5 hours - and much closer to 6 hours or more* once you account for time taken getting to the station.

I had a lot of experience using trains for work travel and they certainly weren't necessarily quicker or more convenient than the journey by road.  The main advantage was that you might be able to do some work on the train - but try doing that on a two-carriage sprinter train surrounded by screaming kids returning from a seaside holiday in Gt Yarmouth... 

I also agree with jillanddy that whether you travel by road or rail, the idea of 6 hours travel, followed by 6 hours work, followed by 6 hours more travel (all back to back without an overnight stay) shoudn't be accepted by anyone.

The problem the OP has is in persuading their employer of this - frankly obvious - fact.


*The longest return I had from Liverpool was on an afternoon in early January one year which took about 8 hours.  And the last 4 hours were in a carriage with no lighting and no heating... 

Jillanddy

*The longest return I had from Liverpool was on an afternoon in early January one year which took about 8 hours.  And the last 4 hours were in a carriage with no lighting and no heating... 

Dear God, you have just reminded me of a journey years ago that I had forgotten (although wiped from my memory is probably closer to reality) sitting in a cold dark carriage for 3 hours in January - literally within 800 yds of the station that we all wanted to get off at! We could have walked to the station. But of course that wasn't allowed. 

getmore4less

Although generally unacceptable I have done the long days on occasion where it makes sense.

Office day in Glasgow by Air.
Using current flight times
06:20 07:50 LHR to be in the office not much after 9am.
19:00 20:05 return(eat at airport if time)

14hr + travel to/from LHR 
Preferred to overnight before.
Would consider overnight after if there was a chance work could overrun or there something good on in Glasgow that evening.

Would not drive it.

unforeseen

Chester to North Shields by train. 12 hour round trip, only 30 mins taken up with the meeting, the rest of the time sitting on a train. 

TELLIT01

AskAsk said:

the train may not get him door to door but there is a busy train network in the UK so it will get him near then he could get a taxi at either end or drive to the nearest train station from his home and park the car there then get the train for the onward journey.  there will be means of public transport anywhere in the UK even if it means you have to do some of the journey by taxi.

I'm assuming you live in a location with good train links.  Try living in the South West of England and getting anywhere by train in a reasonable timescale.  The infrastructure in such areas simply does not exist.

Thrugelmir

getmore4less said:

AskAsk said:

TELLIT01 said:

AskAsk said:

elsien said:

AskAsk said:

where i work, people often travel this far at least once a week.  they don't get hotel stay but they can claim travel expense and they often use the train as it is faster.  you will probably find that if you got the train, it wouldn't take you 6 hours.

i think they should pay you travel expense but if it is not a regular occurence and just a one off then i don't think it is a huge problem.

i myself have had to travel 5 hours or more to meetings at short notice and i only get travel expense re-imbursed.

Even as a one off, a 6 hour day with 12 hours of driving just isn’t safe. I’m guessing your meetings don’t last for 6 hours?

In the OPs position I’d be comparing the cost/length of a train journey at short notice plus time back to the cost of a hotel and then seeing how their budget stacks up. 

the one i was thinking of was about 4 - 5 hours.  the OP doesn't have to drive as he could get the train then a taxi from the nearest train station and get re-imbursement for travel.

the only time i got hotel stay was when the meetings extended over more than one day.

The OP hasn't said either where he lives or where he has to travel to so how can you possibly know that there is a train service which would get him to where he needs to be, at the time he needs to be there?

the train may not get him door to door but there is a busy train network in the UK so it will get him near then he could get a taxi at either end or drive to the nearest train station from his home and park the car there then get the train for the onward journey.  there will be means of public transport anywhere in the UK even if it means you have to do some of the journey by taxi.

Try  Swindon to Glasgow to be there before midday a ~6hr drive.

That presumably assumes a clear run.  Leaving at 6 would mean hitting rush hour pinch points. 

Sncjw

So that only gives you 6 hours for sleep possibly less than that if they they expect you to work the next day to take in account of getting home settling in sleep and getting read for work and get to work the next day.

Nope I would just refuae
 

Jillanddy

Sncjw said:

So that only gives you 6 hours for sleep possibly less than that if they they expect you to work the next day to take in account of getting home settling in sleep and getting read for work and get to work the next day.

Nope I would just refuae
 

Alternatively, you could forego sleep and sit on MSE competing for the "when I were a lad we lived in a shoebox" award. 

NCC1701-A

Gtidave said:

Hi there, work have requested with 4 days notice I drive to a project 6 hours away from my local office to perform my duties which will take 6 hours and then return 6 hours (18hour day) and are demanding I do this trip with no hotel stay over as there's no budget. I often travel but this seems ridiculous and when it is too far I get a hotel paid for by the company, apparently as there's no budget I would have to foot the bill myself (not happening). I checked the company handbook and bizarrely there's no driving at work policy. Personally I think its dangerous to drive home 6hours having done a 12hr day comprising of a 6hour drive followed by 6 hours of work.
Are there any rules on this as all I can find are hgv drivers hours and nothing about doing work in-between travel. (I'm not a hgv driver)

Ask your manager for the risk assessment they have done to cover this bit of work, especially how they address the advice in the Highway Code to take a break of 15 mins every 2 hrs (so your 6hr journey will take 6hrs 45 mins), and how they have determined the likelihood of an RTA due to tiredness and what degree of injury they have planned for.

Also, when you get home, will they give you at least 11 hours to recover before expecting any other work?

Or you could suggest your manager undertakes the project, or at least advises the client there is no budget to cover someone travelling to them and hopes he can doss down at one of their homes.

happyc84

Honestly, I would refuse, if you accept this then it will be hard to say no the next time.

I used to travel 4 hours to a different  location. One Manager said where are you going we work to 5pm. Total disgrace. HSE are now looking at Fatigue Management, so I'd check the Risk assessment. Also does the OP have business insurance for the car.