Think I'm being taken to court for parking in my own space - what do I do next?

Mirandoch

1505grandad said:

A heads-up:-

"But tomorrow I'll send the SAR request to UKPCM......"  -  Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd?

Make sure you send it to the correct parking company  -  earlier you posted;-

"PS: It's UKCPM by the way."  -  UK Car Park Management Ltd

Crikey. I'm not sure. Okay, I've just checked and it's definitely Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd. 

I'm sorry for taking a while to reply, folks. I did my usual thing of procrastinating, but I have finally got down to it this evening. I won't post a copy of the entire SAR letter, but how does this bit sound? Anything I should add or leave out? 

Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself. As proof of identity, I attach a scan of my V5C. 

I request:

- ALL photos taken

- all letters/emails sent and received 

-  a full copy of the Penalty Charge Notice

- a full copy of the Notice To Keeper

- all data held and evidence on which you intend to rely if the case proceeds to court
- a list of all PCNs outstanding against me and/or this VRN. May I remind you that a claim must be for all PCNs, not several separate claims

The car park isn't Pay To Display, so I removed that bit. 

@Fruitcake - Thank you! Once this is all over, I will be complaining to my housing association for sure. 

Coupon-mad

If this was about a PCN issued on HA land, I would be getting my MP to support a complaint to the HA right now, and asking my MP to ask questions of the DLUHC to check that they are aware of what is happening to residents at the hands of ex clampers, for whom residents appear to be sitting duck targets.

Very often, firms like this are predatory and they don't even issue PCNs.  Instead they buy old addresses from the DVLA, send a few letters behind the keeper's back and the arbitrary appeal 'time limit' passes by...

...kerchiiiing!  Add some false 'debt recovery' costs and tell the victim they are 'too late to appeal'

This is worse than clamping ever was and the courts are being used.  Your MP will be interested if you point out the new Code of Practice due to regulate the industry next year, and the Government's huge mistake so far:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/private-parking-charges-discount-rates-debt-collection-fees-and-appeals-charter-further-technical-consultation/private-parking-charges-discount-rates-debt-collection-fees-and-appeals-charter-further-technical-consultation

Too late to respond now, if any new posters missed that Consultation this summer but just look at the damage the industry is causing.  They are plausible enough that the Government appears to have fallen for the debt recovery costs £70' line, and even worse, actually proposed this Summer to make it 'part if the contract' and called that a 'safeguard'.

So that in multi ticket cases, they could the add, say, £700 for ten PCNs a victim never knew about...for sending ONE LETTER in the chain that the non discounted parking charge already covers as a normal cost of this model.

Even a single £70 add-on is a farce.

The unregulated DCAs work on a no-win-no-fee basis and some of them share Directors with patking firms, so aren't even third parties, despite the headed notepaper appearing to be so.  They are all members of the same old boys' club so even the third party 'PCN debt recovery' firms are not exactly at arms' length and there is a huge conflict of interests. 

None of which helps consumers one jot against this rotten industry.

It is not too late for MPs to be complaining for constituents about all this and to make a difference.

 

Mirandoch

Yes, the PCN was issued on HA land. 

Do you think I'd be better off trying to talk to the HA first and then going to my MP if I get no satisfaction from them? This is all new territory to me and my optimism from yesterday is wavering - I just hope I can win this case. I've written and sent the SAR and the letter to Gladstone Solicitors now. 

Coupon-mad

Yes speak to the HA and have them log this as a FORMAL COMPLAINT about the conduct of their predatory agent and say your MP will be in touch.

But I hope you won't overlook the second thing that you need your MP to do, if you want things to change.  The final Consultation was a few weeks ago now and the DLUHC must be trawling through responses.

Not to late to gave an MP provide evidence of exactly what is happening at the hands of ex-clampers in residential estates.

This really is far worse than clamping ever was.

D_P_Dance

If the HA is a registered charity consider a complaint to HM Charity Commissioners.  Charities shouls not get into bed with sacmmers.  Have you complsined to your MP? 

Le_Kirk

I request:
- ALL photos taken
- all letters/emails sent and received 
-  a full copy of the Penalty Charge Notice

Unless it is a council ticket, it will be a parking charge notice.

Mirandoch

I don't want to say my MP will be in touch unless I know he will be! I don't know how helpful this guy is to his constituents. He's one of the new batch of Conservative MPs and doesn't have much of a record so far. 

But, Coupon Mad, you're right about Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd being ex clampers - I googled it. Also found this thread, which is exactly the same thing which happened to me.  

Parking Control Management (UK)Ltd. Ticketed in my own space!!!! — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Also got this snippet from PCM's own website: 

This will include ensuring that all current contracts are being managed to the maximum capability and finding new ways to potentially increase onsite revenue

What other ways can they possibly increase revenue except by trying to ticket even more people? Urgh, cowboys. 

Anyway, I am going to write to my HA to let them know what I think of their choice of parking operator. 

Mirandoch

Hello everyone. 

Just letting you know PCM (UK) Ltd have responded to my SAR request. I haven't gone through it with a fine toothcomb, but from what I've seen they've sent me info on two different PCNs - one in 2019 and one right at the beginning of 2021. 

I don't remember getting a ticket this year, so I had a look at that one more closely. They claim it was for failing to clearly display a valid PCM UK Ltd permit, but you can clearly see a permit - it's just that the photos are such poor quality you can't read anything on it. There is one photo which looks as though the permit might be the wrong way round, e.g. showing the blank back rather than the front, but the reflections make it genuinely hard to see even close up. I don't remember ever putting the permit in the wrong way round, but it's certainly possible - their rubbish quality paper kept on curling up so I do remember trying to straighten it a few times, which obviously meant taking it out of its holder and then putting it back in. (I've since solved the problem by stuffing the back with a load of cardboard. Whatever PCM are spending their money on, it isn't high quality permits.) 

Anyway, what do I do now, folks? Just wait? Happy to upload any photos if anyone is interested. 

D_P_Dance

Have you read any other "own space" threads.  PPCs rarely suceed against defendants in such cases.

https://www.google.com/search?q=own+space+parking+fines&oq=own+space+parking+fines&aqs=chrome..69i57.14608j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Mirandoch

I've read a few and will look for some more on MSE tomorrow. I checked your link but there weren't many threads and the few that there were petered out without any ending (except in one case where somebody panicked and decided to pay up). 

I'm hoping that the lack of threads are because in most cases the parking company decides to withdraw rather than risk losing in court over relatively small sums of money. But I can't help suspecting that a lot of people give in and decide to pay. Which is sad, but I think a lot of people just can't handle the stress. And it IS stressful if you don't know what you're doing.