Help With Apprenticeship Training Costs Repayment

Shane115

Hi all, I'm very new here but was hoping to get some advice regarding my apprenticeship.

I've recently handed in my notice to start a new job. Less than a week before I'm due to leave I've recieved an email from my boss that training fees are been deducted from my final salary which is every penny I've earned over the past month! 

I've previously signed a contract when I started that states I will have to repay my training fees should I leave within 3 years of completing my apprenticeship which I haven't yet done. I've made my boss aware of this expaining it's a breach of contract but he is still making me pay the full amount.   

I've contacted my college who aren't intrested. I've contacted acas who said to get back intouch once the money has been taken. And I've also contacted Citation but am still waiting for a phone call back. So now I'm at a loss of who else to ask. Do I get a legal advisor or is there nothing I can do?

I've also read online it is unlawful to take a large amount of money if it sets you below the national minimum wage limit but not sure how true this is?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Shane.

Savvy_Sue

You're right in general about deductions not taking you below NMW, but there are exceptions, and repaying training fees if you have signed a valid contract would almost certainly be one of them. 

Relying on the fact that you haven't completed your apprenticeship is an interesting approach, not sure if that would fly ...

guessing you are not in a union, but check if you have any legal cover with your home insurance.

Brie

I'm afraid this is a fairly standard line that companies take - if you leave within X period you need to pay back training costs.  They should of course only be the costs for the training you have received not future costs.  If you can't manage then perhaps there's room for compromise - you pay 50% of the costs for the training up to now and then agree a payment plan for the balance.  

How big a company is this?  I suspect small if you're saying your boss emailed you rather than HR or similar.  It may be simply a fact of his is struggling to keep a business afloat and this is an unexpected blow to his expected income as well as having to find someone to replace you.

Marcon

Shane115 said:

Hi all, I'm very new here but was hoping to get some advice regarding my apprenticeship.

I've recently handed in my notice to start a new job. Less than a week before I'm due to leave I've recieved an email from my boss that training fees are been deducted from my final salary which is every penny I've earned over the past month! 

I've previously signed a contract when I started that states I will have to repay my training fees should I leave within 3 years of completing my apprenticeship which I haven't yet done. I've made my boss aware of this expaining it's a breach of contract but he is still making me pay the full amount.   

I've contacted my college who aren't intrested. I've contacted acas who said to get back intouch once the money has been taken. And I've also contacted Citation but am still waiting for a phone call back. So now I'm at a loss of who else to ask. Do I get a legal advisor or is there nothing I can do?

If this is a proper, formal apprenticeship then the employer can't recover the costs, even if you leave before completing the programme. You've been in touch with Citation, so I'm sure you've seen this on their website: https://www.citation.co.uk/news/hr-and-employment-law/an-update-on-funding-apprenticeship-costs/

Savvy_Sue said:

You're right in general about deductions not taking you below NMW, but there are exceptions, and repaying training fees if you have signed a valid contract would almost certainly be one of them. 

Relying on the fact that you haven't completed your apprenticeship is an interesting approach, not sure if that would fly ...

It would. Please see my link above.

Shane115 said:

I've also read online it is unlawful to take a large amount of money if it sets you below the national minimum wage limit but not sure how true this is?

It isn't true if the deduction is 'lawful' (e.g. recovery of the balance of season ticket loan or other amount which the employee has agreed to repay).

Brie said:

I'm afraid this is a fairly standard line that companies take - if you leave within X period you need to pay back training costs.  They should of course only be the costs for the training you have received not future costs.  If you can't manage then perhaps there's room for compromise - you pay 50% of the costs for the training up to now and then agree a payment plan for the balance.  

Not for an apprentice. Apprentice [training] Costs cannot be recovered from the apprentice. Again, please see my link above.

oh_really

Shane115 said:

I've also contacted Citation but am still waiting for a phone call back. So now I'm at a loss of who else to ask. 

Thanks Shane.

I don't know what your relationship with Citation is but be very wary, they exist to offer HR/ H&S support for business - I have nothing positive to say about them.

What exactly is the type of apprenticeship you are undertaking, is it a bona-fide indentured apprenticeship or something else?

Jillanddy

oh_really said:

Shane115 said:

I've also contacted Citation but am still waiting for a phone call back. So now I'm at a loss of who else to ask. 

Thanks Shane.

I don't know what your relationship with Citation is but be very wary, they exist to offer HR/ H&S support for business - I have nothing positive to say about them.

What exactly is the type of apprenticeship you are undertaking, is it a bona-fide indentured apprenticeship or something else?

That may be true about Citation, but Marcon is totally correct. Training costs cannot be recovered from apprentices.  However the main problem with that is that if the employer takes the money, you can't stop them - you'd have to take action against the employer to get it back. 

Shane115

Thanks for all the feeedback.

I've already sent the citation link over to my boss and also a link I've found on the gov website stating the same thing which he has dismissed saying he is within his rights to deduct my money.

Today I've spoken to acas and my college who have both aggread it is unlawful and sent me some documents stating this which I have forwarded to my boss only to be once again dismissed.  

It is only a small accountancy company with about 40 employees with an external company as our HR depatment. 

I'm due to be paid tomorrow so don't think there is anything left that I can do. Not sure if to take legal action or just accept I've lost. I sure he is in the wrong but if I start a case against him and lose I will have to pay out even more money.

Shane115

Savvy_Sue said:

You're right in general about deductions not taking you below NMW, but there are exceptions, and repaying training fees if you have signed a valid contract would almost certainly be one of them. 

Relying on the fact that you haven't completed your apprenticeship is an interesting approach, not sure if that would fly ...

guessing you are not in a union, but check if you have any legal cover with your home insurance.

No unfortunetly I'm not in a union but I've just checked my home insurance and I am covered for legal protection. A great suggestion as I never even realised this was on my policy. Thanks

TELLIT01

I'm afraid the OP's interpretation of the contract is at best wishful thinking.  From what the OP writes, it doesn't say repayment will only be required if the apprenticeship has been completed.  That would be the perfect way for every apprentice to get out of paying by handing their notice in a month before completion.  What the statement in the contract means is that if the person leaves less than 3 years after the apprenticeship would be completed they have to repay the cost, or part of the cost.

Jillanddy

TELLIT01 said:

I'm afraid the OP's interpretation of the contract is at best wishful thinking.  From what the OP writes, it doesn't say repayment will only be required if the apprenticeship has been completed.  That would be the perfect way for every apprentice to get out of paying by handing their notice in a month before completion.  What the statement in the contract means is that if the person leaves less than 3 years after the apprenticeship would be completed they have to repay the cost, or part of the cost.

I'm sorry,  but in law apprenticeship are treated entirely differently. There are no circumstances in which training costs can be recovered,  course completed or not,  timescales or not. 

OP, this is an unlawful deduction of wages and as such a tribunal costs nothing and there is no risk to you.  Go back to ACAS and tell them you want to make a claim.  They will start mediation and hopefully someone there will tell the employer that they are on a hiding to nothing and to quit now. If not,  you fill in the form. 

Manxman_in_exile

Does the OP need to go through an employment tribunal?

If the law says that apprenticeship training costs cannot be recovered in these circumstances, then the OP will have six years in which to recover any deducted wages from their employer as an unpaid contractual debt.  Seems simpler than having to go to an Employment Tribunal with whatever time limits apply.  If I were the OP I would point this out to my employer.

Also, if the employer is a "professional" accountancy firm (whether they have 4 employees or 400), I would be reporting the principal to whatever professional accountancy body they belong to, as they obviously are ignorant of relevant employment law.  Not exactly a good advert for any accountancy firm).

(All this assumes that apprenticeship training fees in this case are irrecoverable, and that "accountancy" means accountancy and not book-keeping).