Taking employer to tribunal while still working there

Jillanddy

The problem that you will face - or one of them - is going to be the nature of the employer, the nature of the work, and whether the "package" hangs together as reasonable in the eyes of the tribunal, because nobody else can tell you for certain. Even a solicitor will be an opinion, not a fact. For example, I am a senior manager with a very large public sector employer. So if we aren't always "good at disability" (because problems and discrimination happen everywhere) we are generally pretty good at ticking all the boxes and making reasonable adjustments is one of them. What would happen in my workplace?

Now you would already have a laptop because we all have them. Dragon or something similar and suitable yes, you could have that too. But not all our programmes work with that software, so there's the first thing to consider - can we make all the programmes you need to use accessible. You say your work is slow, and understandably perhaps, plus you'd like to go reduced hours. As your manager I would have several problem there - I have specific and unmovable deadlines which, if I don't meet them, result in large financial penalties. I have no capacity to expect less work from you than from everyone else, and I couldn't offer reduced hours unless I could find someone else (like a job-share) to pick up the other hours (which is often incredibly difficult). So we now have a problem - the job that I need doing you cannot do, and I cannot give you the adjustments you want. You no longer have capacity to do the job. In this case there will be an opportunity to redeploy into another role somewhere else in the organisation - but only if there is one available, and if there isn't, in three months you would be given notice, and a month after that you would be dismissed on capability grounds. 

Support worker - possibly, and in the past that might have been much more likely to happen. But right now we are making staff redundant, reducing staff by any means possible, and, to be frank, we cannot afford to pay two people to do one job. That would mean we would, in all honesty, be looking to exit you from the organisation. Possibly with a very small "deal". But it's far more likely we would dismiss these days. 

Then if I were your manager, I would be wondering why you need to reduce your hours working for me and need all these adjustments when you are running a charity of your own (i.e. working somewhere else). You can be absolutely certain that, your passion or not, I would take a very dim view of that. You surrender your passion first, not my ability to get the job done. AT least that's how it works if you want to continue receiving a wage. 

And you definitely wouldn't get a training course for all your colleagues on your condition. You have been made a reasonable offer on that. And I wouldn't see a course helping them anyway - if anything it simply draws more attention to the fact that they are all expected to make adjustments - i.e. pick up work that you are not doing - when they are already under enormous pressure with their own workloads. I get that you think this may be reasonable - you need to consider though whether they do?

And that might sound terribly unsympathetic. I obviously don't know anything about disability or reasonable adjustments. Unless you factor in the fact that I am severely disabled myself (in receipt of PIP higher award in both categories and awarded without any face to face assessment, which will tell you a lot about how bad my condition is). I've already told you that our job is highly pressured and has difficult deadlines. If I couldn't do my job to the full extent - if I wanted what you want - I would not get it and I would be redeployed. Or dismissed. So I am not being unsympathetic - in another department I could have all that, but not in mine. And that is why the circumstances matter. If, as your employer says, it is true that the nature of the work means reduced hours and/or a support worker isn't possible, then making the other adjustments doesn't change things for you so there is no point in doing them. If they cannot afford these things, then they can't be made to pay for them. 

Reasonable adjustments is a minefield, and there are no simple answers. So before you get a solicitor involved, you need to understand why the employer is saying they can't do these things, because any lawyer will need to know that before they can give you an opinion. And you may also have to practice the art of the possible yourself too - what do you absolutely need and can that really be done, will it make a real difference or not, and also accept that if you want to sustain your income, then you may have to sacrifice other things, at least for now. 

Preface12

Thank you so much for taking your time to explain all this. I do not currently use a laptop for work, but a shared computer. I will weigh mt options and take it from there. I would've at least expected my employer to try some of these adjustments to see if they could work or not. I will seek professional opnion, speak with atw and see if I could buy these equipments myself. I only work three long days so I could see if this can be reduced in any way as I struggle with the long days but the business can only offer long days. I appreciate your input, thank you

Preface12

or I might just hand in my resignation and move on. I will let the tribunal to decide the rest, however long it takes

Jillanddy

Preface12 said:

or I might just hand in my resignation and move on. I will let the tribunal to decide the rest, however long it takes

Do not do that. You must decide one or the other. Before you can consider resigning you must see through the entire process - you must look at whether the reasons they give for being unwilling to make adjustments are defensible, you must submit a grievance if you think they are not, and you must appeal if you lose. You cannot simply walk away and decide to go to a tribunal. It is highly unlikely that they will support you if you do. 

Oh, and I forgot to add - if you got your mortgage that you were talking about earlier, resigning could mean you won't get any help with that even if it is insured; you could lose benefits rights too. No system is set up to help people resign, and you would need proof that you had no other choice before doing so. I am not at all convinced that you could provide that proof. It may be hard, but there is currently no actual evidence that you cannot do your job as it is (it may be hard, but that isn't the same thing - you are in work and attending work) and you haven't exhausted the employers internal processes of grievances.

Preface12

I can't thank you enough for your advise. I will keep you all posted. I have another meeting with acas next week.

Undervalued

MalMonroe said:

Preface12 said:

Hi, just picking your brains if anyone has taken employer to tribunal while still working with them. I don't want to leave my job yet. I am disabled and have had some recommendations from access to work. Employer is not willing to implement them. I am hoping to sort these recommendations myself.

You could contact acas. https://www.acas.org.uk/

They can give you some great advice about the Equality Act 2010 - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/equality-act-2010-guidance

- as well as the fact that employers can be taken to Employment Tribunals for not complying with recommendations they have been given in order to help their disabled employees, since that is classed as discrimination.

See also the information in this link - https://www.gov.uk/access-to-work

But the main thing is that employers are required to comply with recommendations to ensure that their disabled employees are not disadvantaged in any way.

No they are not!

The are require to comply with the law. Ultimately only a court or employment tribunal can decide if they have done so. 

ACAS, you, me or the Archbishop of Canterbury can produce "recommendations" as to what we think a court or tribunal may find reasonable. Even if they are well founded (and they may or may not be) it doesn't mean that an alternative approach is automatically wrong.

Dr_Crypto

MalMonroe said:

Dr_Crypto said:

It happens in the medical game from time to time but usually for junior staff who move on anyway. 

The matters are usually related to incorrect pay rather than a breakdown of the relationship between the doctor and their supervisors, however. 

But those scenarios are not relevant here. This OP has the backing of the Equality Act 2010 and should not be discriminated against because of their disability.

Sure but the reality of the situation is somewhat different. The employer is likely to conclude that the relationship has broken down and that the employee would be best off elsewhere. 

The employee would be wise to have alternatives lined up before embarking on such a course of action bearing in mind that awards at the ET tend to be pretty paltry. 

Sncjw

If they know about your charity work and your asking for reduced hours on an already compressed week they might put two and two together and think you are working more for your charity and that's why you want reduced hours.

How many hours do you work on charity and also i would be thinking you would use the equipment from atw which could be paid for by the employer for the charity work.

Tread very carefully
. 

Jude57

Sncjw said:

If they know about your charity work and your asking for reduced hours on an already compressed week they might put two and two together and think you are working more for your charity and that's why you want reduced hours.

How many hours do you work on charity and also i would be thinking you would use the equipment from atw which could be paid for by the employer for the charity work.

Tread very carefully
. 

I absolutely agree with this, but I'd go further and say that, if the OP launches a tribunal claim, the employer is very likely to start investigating the OP's out of work activities and even if they don't know about the OP's charity work now, they'll find out. Even without applying the legal doctrine of 'clean hands', the employer would, as others have said, simply argue that it was not unreasonable of them to conclude that the charity work affected OP's ability to perform their paid work to an acceptable standard, even with reasonable adjustments.

Preface12

Just an update. My employer has agreed for me to do two days, atw will assist me in getting some of the adjustments via the funding they provided. I am happy with that. Employer also knows about my charity and has always known that it is my passion and its all about raising awareness about my condition which is a big issue. I will work with my employer in providing awareness training to management and employees. I'll just see what the future holds. Thanks to all of you for your very honest imputs which has guided me in making my decisions. I am grateful