a one year long trial

[Deleted User]

ok, a little dramatic when we've had lockdown but its actually been a year now...It's quite a complex and confusing situation, I have dyslexia so please forgive me if make any mistakes! Last July the then manager decided to walk away from their role with no notice period, they had found a second job mid lockdown and refused to return to their main role unless conditions and pay were improved, the employer refused, the employee then called it a day and refused to return and work notice, unless they agreed to meet their demands for better pay, condition and so on, it was met with a  firm tough then...,the situation was handled poorly on both sides (employer and employee) with both failing agree on anything for a week, and then seeking advice from ACAS and another month was wasted throwing counter-arguments at one another. Really petty and pointless, The employee that left and was finally after a few more months paid for all entitlements etc. 

From the 1st day of them deciding to leave till now, i was asked by the employer to handle their duties and hours on top of my main job. I agreed and a conversation about me being their replacement was had with a simple target of a month.... Yet stupidly here I am one year later and I'm still doing all the extra work, but no promotion has been given or offered despite me asking, I'm met with we will see soon type of comments every time it's raised. it's a committee based establishment and meetings are monthly

There is countless hours of unpaid work building up and up, I do way more than I'm paid for and I'm not willing to leave this any longer. The job is been demanding and I've butted heads with the employer (committee) constantly. Now other staff have started to ask about their holiday entitlements and so on, this has raised queries about holiday entitlement in 2020 and 2021, we (all staff) assumed unused days from 2020. would roll into 2021. We've been told sorry nothing was signed or agree between either party so they're gone.


The reality is we are working with the bare minimum amount of staff,  we simply can't use the amount we have before the end of the year there is no solution in place, we're told sorry the place needs to open. Now, staff are demanding time off, and the only option is offered is to cover them, maybe they'll cover me some days and I got me wondering, what's going to happen with my entitlement this year if i don't make a push for answers and solution. I'm working as an acting manageress and I don't have any staff to cover me. I'm stuck and exhausted.

I've put together a long but detailed letter of my grievances, and I'm about to submit it for their consideration. I'm hoping you could help me check a few facts. I don't want this whole scenario to end badly as did with the predecessor and be dragged out.  

1. My contract hasn't been updated for several years, despite some additional hours been added to my role two years ago, it was pushed to one side on their to-do list.. and then last year the number of hours and duties I have essentially doubled. i don't have any paperwork to back up what I actually do, I can't argue that I should have been paid at the same rate as my predecessor if I didn't sign a contract right? it is more a moral issue correct?

2. Holiday alowance wasted in 2020, if staff and employees didn't have a conversation, and the fault lies with assumptions rather than facts, they are gone that's it?

3, going forward, we are entitled to holidays and to be able to use them by law, and it is not our responsibility to find cover or accept we cant have time off right?

4. The work trial I was offered was verbal, there's no paperwork,, so after one year of being a temporary manageress..I can't expect an increased amount of holiday per year. or any perks my predecessor had in there contract?

thanks!

[Deleted User]

Yes to all four.

Make sure you book and use your holiday entitlement for this year. That's the only thing under your control.

ssparks2003

1. Whilst nice to have everything in writing every time something changes you have verbally agreed to these changes. 

2. You was still at liberty to take leave during lockdown.

3. The employer can dictate when you leave is taken and can decline due to buisness need.

4. What your predecessor had in their contract is fairly irrelevant, it should give you an idea of what you could negotiate but there is no rule that says they must give you the same. What is your negotiation position like? Based on previous behaviour do you think they are about to dramatically increase you package? Or have you found another role and going to use it as a bargaining chip, as that did not appear to work for your predecessor 

[Deleted User]

Deleted_User said:

Yes to all four.

Make sure you book and use your holiday entitlement for this year. That's the only thing under your control.

Thanks!

ssparks2003 said:

1. Whilst nice to have everything in writing every time something changes you have verbally agreed to these changes. 

2. You was still at liberty to take leave during lockdown.

3. The employer can dictate when you leave is taken and can decline due to buisness need.

4. What your predecessor had in their contract is fairly irrelevant, it should give you an idea of what you could negotiate but there is no rule that says they must give you the same. What is your negotiation position like? Based on previous behaviour do you think they are about to dramatically increase you package? Or have you found another role and going to use it as a bargaining chip, as that did not appear to work for your predecessor 

1. . 

Understood

2.  We requested this but were told you can't, a case of both sides not agreeing and us not looking into the facts at the time and leaving it, rather than challenging it. When work resumed, you cant take any now was the answer given...

3. 

This is the area I struggle to understand the most, while that makes sense surely across the year we are legally entitled to use it regardless? Should usage not spent be carried over, or would that be unique to each contract perhaps?

4.

In terms of position, I feel they need me more than I need them and they know that. They can't operate without me there many unique roles only I'm trained and able for (daily). History shows they don't and wont budge sadly, I feel my attempt will gain nothing but I'm willing try before looking at other jobs. 

Undervalued

Deleted User said:

Deleted_User said:

Yes to all four.

Make sure you book and use your holiday entitlement for this year. That's the only thing under your control.

Thanks!

ssparks2003 said:

1. Whilst nice to have everything in writing every time something changes you have verbally agreed to these changes. 

2. You was still at liberty to take leave during lockdown.

3. The employer can dictate when you leave is taken and can decline due to buisness need.

4. What your predecessor had in their contract is fairly irrelevant, it should give you an idea of what you could negotiate but there is no rule that says they must give you the same. What is your negotiation position like? Based on previous behaviour do you think they are about to dramatically increase you package? Or have you found another role and going to use it as a bargaining chip, as that did not appear to work for your predecessor 

1. . 

Understood

2.  We requested this but were told you can't, a case of both sides not agreeing and us not looking into the facts at the time and leaving it, rather than challenging it. When work resumed, you cant take any now was the answer given...

3. 

This is the area I struggle to understand the most, while that makes sense surely across the year we are legally entitled to use it regardless? Should usage not spent be carried over, or would that be unique to each contract perhaps?

4.

In terms of position, I feel they need me more than I need them and they know that. They can't operate without me there many unique roles only I'm trained and able for (daily). History shows they don't and wont budge sadly, I feel my attempt will gain nothing but I'm willing try before looking at other jobs. 

The graveyard is full of people who thought they were indispensable yet the sun still rises every morning in the east!

Jillanddy

"I do way more than I'm paid for and I'm not willing to leave this any longer."

No you don't. You have duties which you have agreed, you are paid what your employer agreed to pay you, and that has been going on for over a year. Why would they wish to pay you more - there is nothing that says they must pay more, never mind pay more for more work. It is highly unlikely, given everything you have said, that they will be willing to pay you more. Therefore the answer is obvious - there are many roles that will pay you more and treat you better, so apply for them. Sorry, but the employer is clearly used to treating people like doormats, and staying just says that is ok. Your predecessor learned that lesson. Time for you to do the same.

Undervalued

Deleted User said:

1. My contract hasn't been updated for several years, despite some additional hours been added to my role two years ago, it was pushed to one side on their to-do list.. and then last year the number of hours and duties I have essentially doubled. i don't have any paperwork to back up what I actually do, I can't argue that I should have been paid at the same rate as my predecessor if I didn't sign a contract right? it is more a moral issue correct?

2. Holiday alowance wasted in 2020, if staff and employees didn't have a conversation, and the fault lies with assumptions rather than facts, they are gone that's it?

3, going forward, we are entitled to holidays and to be able to use them by law, and it is not our responsibility to find cover or accept we cant have time off right?

4. The work trial I was offered was verbal, there's no paperwork,, so after one year of being a temporary manageress..I can't expect an increased amount of holiday per year. or any perks my predecessor had in there contract?

thanks!

1. A "contract" (of employment) is not simply a sheet of paper with the work contract on it. It encompasses all agreements between you and the employer about your working relationship. In fact it doesn't even have to be in writing. Technically you have a legal right to a written "statement of main particulars of employment" but there is no effective legal redress if that doesn't happen. "Contracts" evolve and change with time.

2 and 3. You must be allowed to take at least your statutory holiday entitlement (5.6 weeks / 28 days) per year at some point but the employer can totally dictate when just be giving fairly minimal notice. If you get more than the statutory minimum then the extra is on whatever terms have been agreed and could potentially be lost under some circumstances.

4. Your rights are to whatever you have agreed with the company. What your predecessor did or didn't get is totally irrelevant.

[Deleted User]

Really insightful answers, and has challenged me to look at this differently. I will amend my grieveance letter to focus on changing things in the future only, falling that I will seek work elsewhere. Thanks, MSE community 

getmore4less

Last July the then manager decided to walk away from their role with no notice period, they had found a second job mid lockdown and refused to return to their main role unless conditions and pay were improved, the employer refused,

The writing was on the wall from day one you would be the next one to have the poo dropped on you if you took up this role.

Until things stop getting done they won't change the stance of tough.

The real issue with the current situation is improvements in remuneration is not going to fix the underlying problems of to much work not enough people and no cover fort he "essential tasks".

more money just puts power back in the employers direction.


Why did people not take their holidays in 2020?
What is the holiday year for clarification of the dates.

Were holidays refused or did people just not ask for them.

if refused then you can show there is an obligation to carry over. 

Savvy_Sue

getmore4less said:

Why did people not take their holidays in 2020?
What is the holiday year for clarification of the dates.

Were holidays refused or did people just not ask for them.

if refused then you can show there is an obligation to carry over. 

And the correct response to repeated refusals of leave requests is "please tell me when I can take leave". 

I was also struck by the OP's feeling that they are indispensable, and that there are tasks no-one else is trained to do. That is such a dangerous situation for anyone to be in, but particularly these days when ANYONE might have to stay home at short notice: I hope at the very least you have a set of documents / procedures which someone else could refer to if you were pinged or fell under a bus - or tripped over the recycling box, smashed your shoulder to smithereens, and were signed off work for 8 weeks.