Going into Drawdown either Aviva or Quilter

Malthusian

alan014 said:

So much useful information and thank you so much!  I can now appreciate a lot better why Aviva do not respond instantly .....

Talk about timing  - I have just received a written response from Aviva which was reassuring stating "If transferred to the Aviva  - Investment Pathway 3. The annual management charges for investment pathway 3 are 0.1%"   
 
This seems really too low??

No, that's low but not unusual for a workplace pension fund. Workplace pensions often have very low charges because a) economies of scale and b) the vast majority of members never do anything with their funds or require any admin to speak of.

You should check whether the workplace pension applies a policy charge in addition to the fund management charge, but it wouldn't be *edit* unusual for there to be none.

This would blow out of the water the charges I have been quoted from Quilter and demonstrated by dunstonh and appear to be similar investment types?

It's not like-for-like. Within that 0.1% you aren't getting ongoing advice. Whether you value the adviser's advice enough to pay them 0.85%pa is up to you.

In addition the Quilter fund uses active management whereas we can assume the Aviva one predominantly uses index-tracking. I.e. the Quilter fund pays someone to choose investments they think will do better than the market. There is no evidence that any fund manager can consistently beat the market.

alan014

Thank you . Yes thats what I am thinking and the real question I suppose emerges:

After discounting the initial fee (£6000) with the ongoing Quilter 2.2% charge (inc the adviser's 085%pa charge) can their fund manager constantly beat the Aviva  - Investment Pathway 3 by over 2% per annum?

dunstonh

After discounting the initial fee (£6000) with the ongoing Quilter 2.2% charge (inc the adviser's 085%pa charge) can their fund manager constantly beat the Aviva  - Investment Pathway 3 by over 2% per annum?

Yes it's possible and does happen but generally not by using managed multi-asset funds.

ian16527

alan014 said:

Thank you . Yes thats what I am thinking and the real question I suppose emerges:

After discounting the initial fee (£6000) with the ongoing Quilter 2.2% charge (inc the adviser's 085%pa charge) can their fund manager constantly beat the Aviva  - Investment Pathway 3 by over 2% per annum?

You dont say what Quilter fund your are going to use - use Trustnet to chart them both for an idea of past performance 

Albermarle

alan014 said:

So much useful information and thank you so much!  I can now appreciate a lot better why Aviva do not respond instantly .....

Talk about timing  - I have just received a written response from Aviva which was reassuring stating "If transferred to the Aviva  - Investment Pathway 3. The annual management charges for investment pathway 3 are 0.1%"   
 
This seems really too low?? so have now asked if there are any other charges that i am not seeing? This would blow out of the water the charges I have been quoted from Quilter and demonstrated by dunstonh and appear to be similar investment types?

As said Aviva have a complex legacy of old schemes and new ones .
I suspect your current 0.8% is an all in price , whilst this 0.1% is just for the fund and there will be an additional platform /admin charge - maybe around 0.4% ?? 
Just guessing but 0.1% all in does seem too good to be true.

Albermarle

Voila 

Our Aviva charge

Our charge is a percentage of your total investment, up to a maximum of 0.40%, and is based on how much you’ve invested with us. The more you invest, the lower the percentage you'll pay, as shown in the table. 

Invested value	Annual charge
First £50,000	0.40%
Next £200,000	0.35%
Next £250,000	0.25%
Amount above £500,000	0%

alan014

ian16527 said:

alan014 said:

MallyGirl said:

alan014 said:

Financial Adviser

Maybe time to find an IFA if you still want to pay for advice - it will give you access to the whole market rather than being recommended the best of what an FA is able to sell

Thank you .  The more advice would possibly just lead to more costs and options and dilemmas ?

My friend has recently asked about Quilter, after being advised to use them for the same reason as you. I think the value was around £200k

The fund chosen by the FA has quite high fees:

Platform  - 0.4%

Fund - 1.15%

IFA - 1%

That's 2.55% a year costs before you break even not allowing for inflation. 
Then an initial 3% to set it up.

The fund is Quilter Investors Cirilium Moderate Portfolio R Acc. 

I cant post any snapshots but it hasn't done any better than VLS60 or HSBC Global balanced in the last 5 years

I think thats my concern , the charges of Quilter simply appear too much to consistantly outperform the Aviva platform 

dunstonh

alan014 said:

ian16527 said:

alan014 said:

MallyGirl said:

alan014 said:

Financial Adviser

Maybe time to find an IFA if you still want to pay for advice - it will give you access to the whole market rather than being recommended the best of what an FA is able to sell

Thank you .  The more advice would possibly just lead to more costs and options and dilemmas ?

My friend has recently asked about Quilter, after being advised to use them for the same reason as you. I think the value was around £200k

The fund chosen by the FA has quite high fees:

Platform  - 0.4%

Fund - 1.15%

IFA - 1%

That's 2.55% a year costs before you break even not allowing for inflation. 
Then an initial 3% to set it up.

The fund is Quilter Investors Cirilium Moderate Portfolio R Acc. 

I cant post any snapshots but it hasn't done any better than VLS60 or HSBC Global balanced in the last 5 years

I think thats my concern , the charges of Quilter simply appear too much to consistantly outperform the Aviva platform 

Both the Aviva platform and Quilter platform have the same investments.  They also use the same software and appear to be on similar version numbers.   It isn't the platforms that perform.  It is the investments you hold on it.

alan014

dunstonh said:

alan014 said:

ian16527 said:

alan014 said:

MallyGirl said:

alan014 said:

Financial Adviser

Maybe time to find an IFA if you still want to pay for advice - it will give you access to the whole market rather than being recommended the best of what an FA is able to sell

Thank you .  The more advice would possibly just lead to more costs and options and dilemmas ?

My friend has recently asked about Quilter, after being advised to use them for the same reason as you. I think the value was around £200k

The fund chosen by the FA has quite high fees:

Platform  - 0.4%

Fund - 1.15%

IFA - 1%

That's 2.55% a year costs before you break even not allowing for inflation. 
Then an initial 3% to set it up.

The fund is Quilter Investors Cirilium Moderate Portfolio R Acc. 

I cant post any snapshots but it hasn't done any better than VLS60 or HSBC Global balanced in the last 5 years

I think thats my concern , the charges of Quilter simply appear too much to consistantly outperform the Aviva platform 

Both the Aviva platform and Quilter platform have the same investments.  They also use the same software and appear to be on similar version numbers.   It isn't the platforms that perform.  It is the investments you hold on it.

Thank you if thats the case there seems very little point paying a 2% transfer and greater yearly management charges ? That said if i stayed with Aviva i woukd probably leave it in default funds as i am no expert in these things !

cfw1994

Zero point moving to a restrictive FA to their managed funds with those ludicrous costs!
My work fund is with Aviva (different scheme, from a skim of this), & costs vary from 0.29% to around 1% in total.
Now into drawdown....& the funds available are precisely the same.  If I take no action, they remain where they were: is your scheme the same?
If so, & if it has performed well (so far as you can tell) - why move?!