Unsigned letters and false information.

DouglasS

I'm having a horrendous time at my work. Latest issue, I was assaulted by two "team leaders" which led to me being signed off on the sick. I raised a grievance, and after two weeks, returned to work. Nothing had been done about my grievance (Despite Police being involved, CCTV evidence to the assault etc.) and I was expected to work with my assailants again as if nothing had happened.

I decided that I really should consider quitting, and spoke to my Line Manager. I Quote: "I'm done. You need to look into notice periods, holiday pay and the likes, and I'll talk to you when I get back" (I work out on the road, not in the store.)

She went kind of crazy at me, screaming that "This isn't the way it's done!!!" etc and then the Store Manager joined in, screaming irrational stuff at me - things like "YOU'RE BREATHING ON US!!! GET AWAY!!!" (This was the day after lockdown ended, I'm exempt from wearing a mask anyway, and double jabbed.) Finally ending "GET OUT, I DON'T WANT YOUR KIND IN MY STORE!!!"

I left, as asked, and self certificated, which has been updated to a full certificate from my GP.

Today, I received a letter, stating they had accepted my "verbal resignation will immediate effect" and wanted their stuff (1 tee-shirt) back.

Now, to the point.

1. Is saying I'm thinking of quitting, and asking for the details of how to, classed as verbal resignation?
2. The letter is unsigned, so is it even legally binding?

TIA.

Sandtree

It goes back to the age old problem, verbal contracts/agreements are as binding as any other sort however the issue is proving what was actually agreed. It sounds like it was a rather heated discussion and therefore probable that the three people there all came away with a different take on exactly what was said.

If a verbal agreement is binding why would you think a letter needs signing?

tacpot12

You did say "I'm done." which I could easily see as being interpreted as a resignation. 

I think you need to decide if you want to stay working for an employer that won't sort out the assault that happened to you. If you do want to carry on working there, write back and say "I think you are mistaken about the fact that I resigned. I didn't" and see what they say. 

Undervalued

DouglasS said:

Now, to the point.

1. Is saying I'm thinking of quitting, and asking for the details of how to, classed as verbal resignation?
2. The letter is unsigned, so is it even legally binding?

TIA.

Possibly and yes, nothing says a letter has to be signed although if it isn't it is easier for the sender to deny having sent it or claim it was sent without their authority.

That said, if this ended up in an employment tribunal a judge would have to decide, on the balance of probabilities, whether you intended to resign and if so whether what you said could reasonably be interpreted as a resignation.

Also, does your employment contract specify that a resignation has to be in writing? If so that also helps your argument that you haven't resigned.

However, do you really want to go back given the situation you described?

BrassicWoman

"I'm done" is pretty clear. If you are now claiming a heat of the moment defense, you really should have retracted it within 24 hours.

If there were police involved and an assault I assume you are pressing charges?

Marcon

DouglasS said:

I'm having a horrendous time at my work. Latest issue, I was assaulted by two "team leaders" which led to me being signed off on the sick. I raised a grievance, and after two weeks, returned to work. Nothing had been done about my grievance (Despite Police being involved, CCTV evidence to the assault etc.) and I was expected to work with my assailants again as if nothing had happened.

I decided that I really should consider quitting, and spoke to my Line Manager. I Quote: "I'm done. You need to look into notice periods, holiday pay and the likes, and I'll talk to you when I get back" (I work out on the road, not in the store.)

She went kind of crazy at me, screaming that "This isn't the way it's done!!!" etc and then the Store Manager joined in, screaming irrational stuff at me - things like "YOU'RE BREATHING ON US!!! GET AWAY!!!" (This was the day after lockdown ended, I'm exempt from wearing a mask anyway, and double jabbed.) Finally ending "GET OUT, I DON'T WANT YOUR KIND IN MY STORE!!!"

I left, as asked, and self certificated, which has been updated to a full certificate from my GP.

Today, I received a letter, stating they had accepted my "verbal resignation will immediate effect" and wanted their stuff (1 tee-shirt) back.

Now, to the point.

1. Is saying I'm thinking of quitting, and asking for the details of how to, classed as verbal resignation?
2. The letter is unsigned, so is it even legally binding?

TIA.

What do you want the outcome to be?

General_Grant

To me it sounded like a clear intention on your part - you were simply asking them to confirm notice periods required (and that you were looking for holiday pay).

When you left the store, did you actually do any more work?  If you did, that could go to refuting their view that you were seeking to leave with immediate effect.

Thrugelmir

DouglasS said:

She went kind of crazy at me, screaming that "This isn't the way it's done!!!" etc and then the Store Manager joined in, screaming irrational stuff at me - things like "YOU'RE BREATHING ON US!!! GET AWAY!!!" (This was the day after lockdown ended, I'm exempt from wearing a mask anyway, and double jabbed.) Finally ending "GET OUT, I DON'T WANT YOUR KIND IN MY STORE!!!"

Nothing to stop you catching Covid and transmitting it onwards.  Certainly not comfortable if you are invading other people's personal space. 

TBagpuss

OK, I think that as you said 'I'm done' it's not unreasonable to accept that as resignation. However, as you mentioned notice periods you clearly were not asking for or suggesting that you wanted to resign with immediate effect, so depending on your notice period you probably need to go back to them about whether they want you to work your notice or are putting you on gardening leave or offering to pay you n lieu of notice. 

It's also open to you to say to them that you have not resigned, that you asked for information to clarify your notice periods etc. *if* you resigned, and ask whether they are dismissing you.

It's just possible that you could argue that this is constructive dismissal as a result of their failure to deal with your grievance, and expecting you to work with people who physically assaulted you. IF you want to explore that , you need to urgently peak to your union or to an employment lawyer

If you want to continue working there I think you need to respond as quickly as possible and say something like 

"I was very surprised to received you (unsigned) letter suggesting that you were accepting my resignation. I have not offered or given my resignation. I did make enquiries about notice periods so I could consider all options, but had not made a decision and did not resign. 

I remain willing and able to perform my duties in accordance with my contract of employment and  will be in work as usual on  [date you are next due to work] "

Jillanddy

Maybe I am thinking about this wrong, but where I work, if you involved the police, which it seems you did, we wouldn't be allowed to take the grievance any further or take any action at all until the police decided whether they were going to act. Doing that could prejudice the police investigation. And if, given this is an alleged assault, the police decided that they did not view it as an assault or found no wrongdoing, then you wouldn't be very likely to get a grievance upheld either.

But we would take action against an employee who is in someone's personal space, whether it was the day after lockdown, they had an exemption and were double jabbed or not. There is nothing irrational abut somebody being scared of contracting Covid, whether you agree with their fears or not. The fact that you seem to think that you have the right to get into somebody else's personal space, and rubbish their reasonable fears (to say nothing of the employers policies, I suspect) suggests that there is more to this story than you are saying.

I agree with other people. If you shouted "I'm done" and never came back, which it seems that you didn't, then I would take that as your resignation, sick note or not. What you say you said couldn't be said in a calm and rational way - it is very aggressive and that wasn't the only sentence or the opening sentence in the conversation. What did you say before that?