State Pension and Contracted Out Deduction

TheGoldfish

zagfles said:

TheGoldfish said:

zagfles said:

What employment did she have between 1978 and 1997? Did she pay into a personal pension which she's since cashed in, or a workplace pension which she's transferred out?

She didn't have any employment between 1978 - 1997. After I was born in '68 my mother decided to be a fulltime mum and housewife. She's had no personal pensions and no workplace pensions to transfer out.

She believes she did not work at Barclays long enough in the '60s to qualify for their pension scheme.

It must refer to the additional pension she inherited from your father then. Although I'd have thought they'd itemise it more clearly. What was her pension before your father died?

She wasn't receiving any state pension before my father's death but was above retirement age. Is it odd that she worked for Barclays for at least 8 years up until the age of 29 in 1968 and she doesn't get any state pension or company pension in her own right?

Marcon

TheGoldfish said:

zagfles said:

TheGoldfish said:

zagfles said:

What employment did she have between 1978 and 1997? Did she pay into a personal pension which she's since cashed in, or a workplace pension which she's transferred out?

She didn't have any employment between 1978 - 1997. After I was born in '68 my mother decided to be a fulltime mum and housewife. She's had no personal pensions and no workplace pensions to transfer out.

She believes she did not work at Barclays long enough in the '60s to qualify for their pension scheme.

It must refer to the additional pension she inherited from your father then. Although I'd have thought they'd itemise it more clearly. What was her pension before your father died?

She wasn't receiving any state pension before my father's death but was above retirement age. Is it odd that she worked for Barclays for at least 8 years up until the age of 29 in 1968 and she doesn't get any state pension or company pension in her own right?

No. Until 6 April 1975, anyone who left an employer's service before reaching the scheme's retirement age had no right to a pension - just a refund of any personal contributions, minus tax.

xylophone

Before my father died she wasn't receiving any state pension although was above the retirement age.  

When she reached age 60 in around 1999, she had too few contributions to qualify for any SP in her own right?

Your father had not reached SPA at that point so that she could not claim a spouse pension on his contributions?

He was however receiving a pension from his contracted out occupational scheme (which went into PPF)?

He died before reaching SPA?

When he died, your mother started receiving a full basic state pension on his contributions and also inherited some or all of his additional state pension?

Because a COD would have been applied to his pre 97 additional state pension, a COD applies to the ASP she inherited as explained in the article.

TheGoldfish

xylophone said:

Before my father died she wasn't receiving any state pension although was above the retirement age.  

When she reached age 60 in around 1999, she had too few contributions to qualify for any SP in her own right?

Your father had not reached SPA at that point so that she could not claim a spouse pension on his contributions?

He was however receiving a pension from his contracted out occupational scheme (which went into PPF)?

He died before reaching SPA?

When he died, your mother started receiving a full basic state pension on his contributions and also inherited some or all of his additional state pension?

Because a COD would have been applied to his pre 97 additional state pension, a COD applies to the ASP she inherited as explained in the article.

I've had a chat with my mum this afternoon. She worked for Barclays for about 13 years although she thinks for a period she was classed a 'temporary staff'. Would she have had 13 years of NI contributions? If so, if 13 years wouldn't have qualified for a state pension how many year would she have had to have completed?

My father died at the age of 82 in 2012.

I can now appreciate that the COD probably relates to PPF payment in relation to my father's pension but it's a bit of a shock to realise the COD is 100% of the PPF income.

My mother has told me it was Barclays Domicile Colonial & Overseas (Barclays DCO) she worked for. The annoying thing is I remember clearing out her garage in 2019 and throwing out all her old payslips  😭

Thank you for all the help you've given

TheGoldfish

Just like to thank everyone for their help.

I've concluded that my mother probably is not entitled to any pension from Barclays (DCO). And is probably not entitled to a state pension based on her own contributions but I will check with the DWP. 

xylophone

My father died at the age of 82 in 2012.

Then he reached SPA in 1995 which was before your mother reached SPA.

You say that she was not receiving any State Pension between when she reached SPA (around  1999/2000) and your father's death in 2012.

One would have thought that she would have had a certain number of full years for any time she worked and was earning the requisite amount - however, after she married she may have paid the "married woman's stamp").

When she reached SPA, she should have claimed a state pension - if she did not qualify on her own contributions ( pre 2007 to claim a pro rata pension on her own contributions she would have had to have been entitled to at least a quarter of the full Basic State Pension), she should have claimed a spouse pension on your father's contributions (which would have given her 2/3 of a full basic - about £40 a week in 2000 increasing to around  £64 a week by 2012).

The DWP would not have written to your mother concerning  a claim for state pension although your father might have received a communication - see

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9431913/More-74-000-married-women-set-23-000-windfall-underpaid-state-pensions.html

https://www.usdaw.org.uk/Help-Advice/Pensions/Older-married-women

When your father died and DWP were advised of his death, your mother would have been awarded a full basic on his contributions and inherited his additional state pension.

As he had been in a contracted out occupational pension, a COD would have been applied to to  any pre 1997 ASP he had earned (do you by any chance still have any of his old SP statements)? and a deduction is applied to your mother's SP as previously explained.

elouise01582

Just make sure that your mother received home responsibilities protection from 1978 when it was introduced until her youngest child reached the age of 16.  She should have been awarded this via claiming child benefit (called family allowance in those days).  If you are an only child then she would have received around 6 years of home responsibilities protection towards the 39 years she needed back then to qualify for a full basic state pension. Don't believe it to be automatic. I brother as born in 1977 and the DWP failed to credit my mother with the 4 years state pension credit she should have received due to this until she went back to work when he was age 5. You need to check your mum's NIC records carefully to see which years she was credited.

zagfles

This old guide gives detailed guidance on the old state pension:

https://www.taxation.co.uk/docs/default-source/file/np46-guide-to-state-pensions.pdf

xylophone

The effect of HRP was to reduce the number of full years required for a full basic state pension.

As zagfles said, pre 2010, a woman required 39 full years for a full basic SP.

You indicated that your mother worked for Barclays ( for some years classed as a "temp") from  around 1955 to 1968.

 You do not indicate when your parents married but it is quite possible that when they did, your mother opted to pay the married woman's stamp - if so, this would have had an effect on her eligibility for state pension.

The point is that when your mother reached SPA, she should have put in a claim for state pension.

At that point, her record would have been examined to see if she qualified for any pension in her own right - bear in mind that at the time, whether through contributions/HRP, she would have required enough contributions to reach the value of a quarter of full basic.

If she did qualify, the amount would have been compared with what she could have claimed on your father's contributions and she would have received at least the higher of the two amounts.

It seems that unfortunately, your mother was unaware that she should claim for SP when she reached 60 

See links in previous and

  https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/05/government-to-correct-womens-underpaid-state-pensions-by-the-end-of-2023/#:~:text=There are two groups of,to receive an enhanced pension.&text=The second group of women,reached 65 before March 2008.