Chancellor Rishi Sunak hints at ruling out 8% pension rise

GunJack

steampowered said:

I accept that private pensions are more popular than they used to be, but what happened to the rest of the money that people working in the 60s and 70s earnt over their working lives?

Savings, buy-to-let properties, bigger owned properties, stock market investments .... these are all things that could provide for retirement. 

for one thing, income tax standard rate was 30-odd% and personal allowance was tiny, a lot more deductions than now...and higher rate was a stonking 83%.

The Thatcher govt started reducing rates after 1979, but it didn't drop below 30% until 1986. 

zagfles

steampowered said:

michaels said:

So lets see, the working age population who pay the pensioners incomes through their tax all put their lives on hold for over a year many suffering considerable financial hardships pretty much to save the lives of the pensioners (look up the deaths data 90% plus are over pension age) should now pay an extra £2bn in tax not just this year but every year so those same pensioners can all se a big jump in their standard of living whilst those same tax payers have almost all seen a fall in theirs.

I thought it was the young who were supposed to be the Me Me Me greedy generation....

I agree with you. The triple lock is and always was a stupid policy. All part of presenting the Conservative party as on the side of the older generations (without actually doing anything immediate). 

But, the triple lock was a key headline policy of the government which was elected. The whole point of British democracy is that the government is supposed to implement its manifesto. 

So what, Labour broke their headline promise not to raise tax rates after the financial crisis. If a crisis happens (or sometimes even if not) manifesto promises go out of the window.

michaels

GunJack said:

steampowered said:

I accept that private pensions are more popular than they used to be, but what happened to the rest of the money that people working in the 60s and 70s earnt over their working lives?

Savings, buy-to-let properties, bigger owned properties, stock market investments .... these are all things that could provide for retirement. 

for one thing, income tax standard rate was 30-odd% and personal allowance was tiny, a lot more deductions than now...and higher rate was a stonking 83%.

The Thatcher govt started reducing rates after 1979, but it didn't drop below 30% until 1986. 

And Ni and VAT were much lower, and there was MIRAS - not sure what your point is?

zagfles

Alexland said:

Albermarle said:

However the rise in earnings will be recalculated in some way just for this years calculation ,to take account of the special circumstances .

Yes I think most voters and pensioners would accept that the triple lock wasn't intended and wouldn't be appropriate for these circumstances and so by exception a longer measurement period should be used that covers the volatility in earnings caused by the pandemic ensuring that over several years the SP has grown by the greater of the three measures which is still a good result for those benefiting and shouldn't cause any reasonable retirement plans to fail.

Indeed, any reasonable person would agree. But it'll still be endlessly expolited by those who want to use it as a political weapon, although I think it will backfire...

michaels

zagfles said:

Alexland said:

Albermarle said:

However the rise in earnings will be recalculated in some way just for this years calculation ,to take account of the special circumstances .

Yes I think most voters and pensioners would accept that the triple lock wasn't intended and wouldn't be appropriate for these circumstances and so by exception a longer measurement period should be used that covers the volatility in earnings caused by the pandemic ensuring that over several years the SP has grown by the greater of the three measures which is still a good result for those benefiting and shouldn't cause any reasonable retirement plans to fail.

Indeed, any reasonable person would agree. But it'll still be endlessly expolited by those who want to use it as a political weapon, although I think it will backfire...

That is what I thought but reading the BBC HYS comments on it the opinion being expressed is very much that pensioners would be being screwed and should never vote Tory again

Presumably a kite is being flown and the final outcome will depend on the feedback - £3bn per year is a lot to buy the votes of people who will definitely grumble but probably vote Tory anyway.

zagfles

michaels said:

zagfles said:

Alexland said:

Albermarle said:

However the rise in earnings will be recalculated in some way just for this years calculation ,to take account of the special circumstances .

Yes I think most voters and pensioners would accept that the triple lock wasn't intended and wouldn't be appropriate for these circumstances and so by exception a longer measurement period should be used that covers the volatility in earnings caused by the pandemic ensuring that over several years the SP has grown by the greater of the three measures which is still a good result for those benefiting and shouldn't cause any reasonable retirement plans to fail.

Indeed, any reasonable person would agree. But it'll still be endlessly expolited by those who want to use it as a political weapon, although I think it will backfire...

That is what I thought but reading the BBC HYS comments on it the opinion being expressed is very much that pensioners would be being screwed and should never vote Tory again

Presumably a kite is being flown and the final outcome will depend on the feedback - £3bn per year is a lot to buy the votes of people who will definitely grumble but probably vote Tory anyway.

I wouldn't take much notice of BBC HYS, it's getting as bad as tw*tter!

Albermarle

zagfles said:

steampowered said:

michaels said:

So lets see, the working age population who pay the pensioners incomes through their tax all put their lives on hold for over a year many suffering considerable financial hardships pretty much to save the lives of the pensioners (look up the deaths data 90% plus are over pension age) should now pay an extra £2bn in tax not just this year but every year so those same pensioners can all se a big jump in their standard of living whilst those same tax payers have almost all seen a fall in theirs.

I thought it was the young who were supposed to be the Me Me Me greedy generation....

I agree with you. The triple lock is and always was a stupid policy. All part of presenting the Conservative party as on the side of the older generations (without actually doing anything immediate). 

But, the triple lock was a key headline policy of the government which was elected. The whole point of British democracy is that the government is supposed to implement its manifesto. 

So what, Labour broke their headline promise not to raise tax rates after the financial crisis. If a crisis happens (or sometimes even if not) manifesto promises go out of the window.

Remember what George Bush said before being elected  ' Read my lips NO MORE TAXES' and within about 18 months had to put them up .

Alexland

zagfles said:

Indeed, any reasonable person would agree. But it'll still be endlessly expolited by those who want to use it as a political weapon, although I think it will backfire...

I just downloaded the Conservative 2019 manifesto as a PDF from their website and can't see that they even promised the triple lock would be measured on an annual basis so they might get away with extending the measurement period and saying that despite the pandemic it was 'honoured across the term of the parliament'.

Westertonbilly

Eldi_Dos said:

sevenhills said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Winger Fuel Payment

Christmas Bonus
Bus pass
Eye test
Prescriptions

If you live in Scotland, then you get free prescriptions and eye tests at any age, free bus pass at 60

I live in Scotland and benefit from these policies.My local council issue our bus passes and part of the deal is we pay them £170+ on the first of the month to the council. Kind of rankles when its referred to as free.

Aye, higher tax take from Scottish workers funds the "free" stuff.

zagfles

Westertonbilly said:

Eldi_Dos said:

sevenhills said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Winger Fuel Payment

Christmas Bonus
Bus pass
Eye test
Prescriptions

If you live in Scotland, then you get free prescriptions and eye tests at any age, free bus pass at 60

I live in Scotland and benefit from these policies.My local council issue our bus passes and part of the deal is we pay them £170+ on the first of the month to the council. Kind of rankles when its referred to as free.

Aye, higher tax take from Scottish workers funds the "free" stuff.

And the Barnett formula which allocates about 20% pp extra