Self Assessment missing payment.

ad1927

My brother in law (BIL) has been getting his post sent to my address for the past few years.  

He has recently had a very large rebate (16000) from HMRC, covering 4 years of taxes.  Both he and my wife are sketchy about the details, but  he recently moved to becoming self assessed.  My wife suggested I do the same so I could payless tax.  I refused, basically saying Paye is simpler.

My own thoughts are that my BIL was given a tax rebate in lieu of filing self assessment tax forms.  Needless to say, it is unlikely he has filed anything.

Today he received a letter saying that there is a missing payment for his self assessment tax of circa 10000 pounds.  His response was that it is simply wrong, he pays tax weekly (he is paid weekly so thinks this covers it!) and he has no intention of contacting HMRC.

I have read that HMRC have a number of methods to get the money (and yes, I know, they WILL get the money).  One of which includes taking his possessions.  That would involve a debt collection agency coming to my house where he has no possessions.  In such a scenario, can a debt collection agency assume that he owns things in my house and take them or claim them?  Would it be upto me to then prove I own these things (tricky because I have no receipts).  He lives hundreds of miles away and we've already received letters from debt collectors about other unpaid bills, his bank account is overdrawn (£1500 on average), and the tax rebate he was awarded in January had disappeared by May.  It is clear to me he has no intention and/or means to repay, and he has no understanding on what self assessment means.  He just thinks he's spotted a loophole that allows him to avoid tax paying.

Is the simplest solution for me to return all such post with a "does not live at this address" message?  

All advice welcome.

MattMattMattUK

ad1927 said:

My brother in law (BIL) has been getting his post sent to my address for the past few years.  

He has recently had a very large rebate (16000) from HMRC, covering 4 years of taxes.  Both he and my wife are sketchy about the details, but  he recently moved to becoming self assessed.  My wife suggested I do the same so I could payless tax.  I refused, basically saying Paye is simpler.

My own thoughts are that my BIL was given a tax rebate in lieu of filing self assessment tax forms.  Needless to say, it is unlikely he has filed anything.

Today he received a letter saying that there is a missing payment for his self assessment tax of circa 10000 pounds.  His response was that it is simply wrong, he pays tax weekly (he is paid weekly so thinks this covers it!) and he has no intention of contacting HMRC.

I have read that HMRC have a number of methods to get the money (and yes, I know, they WILL get the money).  One of which includes taking his possessions.  That would involve a debt collection agency coming to my house where he has no possessions.  In such a scenario, can a debt collection agency assume that he owns things in my house and take them or claim them?  Would it be upto me to then prove I own these things (tricky because I have no receipts).  He lives hundreds of miles away and we've already received letters from debt collectors about other unpaid bills, his bank account is overdrawn (£1500 on average), and the tax rebate he was awarded in January had disappeared by May.  It is clear to me he has no intention and/or means to repay, and he has no understanding on what self assessment means.  He just thinks he's spotted a loophole that allows him to avoid tax paying.

Is the simplest solution for me to return all such post with a "does not live at this address" message?  

All advice welcome.

Yes, especially if he is unwilling to change the addresses himself. Why was he using your address in the first place? Is he on the electoral roll and/or council tax at your address? 

Debt collectors have no claim on your property, but they can turn up. If your property is his last known address then court papers will also likely be served there as well.

ad1927

MattMattMattUK said:

ad1927 said:

My brother in law (BIL) has been getting his post sent to my address for the past few years.  

He has recently had a very large rebate (16000) from HMRC, covering 4 years of taxes.  Both he and my wife are sketchy about the details, but  he recently moved to becoming self assessed.  My wife suggested I do the same so I could payless tax.  I refused, basically saying Paye is simpler.

My own thoughts are that my BIL was given a tax rebate in lieu of filing self assessment tax forms.  Needless to say, it is unlikely he has filed anything.

Today he received a letter saying that there is a missing payment for his self assessment tax of circa 10000 pounds.  His response was that it is simply wrong, he pays tax weekly (he is paid weekly so thinks this covers it!) and he has no intention of contacting HMRC.

I have read that HMRC have a number of methods to get the money (and yes, I know, they WILL get the money).  One of which includes taking his possessions.  That would involve a debt collection agency coming to my house where he has no possessions.  In such a scenario, can a debt collection agency assume that he owns things in my house and take them or claim them?  Would it be upto me to then prove I own these things (tricky because I have no receipts).  He lives hundreds of miles away and we've already received letters from debt collectors about other unpaid bills, his bank account is overdrawn (£1500 on average), and the tax rebate he was awarded in January had disappeared by May.  It is clear to me he has no intention and/or means to repay, and he has no understanding on what self assessment means.  He just thinks he's spotted a loophole that allows him to avoid tax paying.

Is the simplest solution for me to return all such post with a "does not live at this address" message?  

All advice welcome.

Yes, especially if he is unwilling to change the addresses himself. Why was he using your address in the first place? Is he on the electoral roll and/or council tax at your address? 

Debt collectors have no claim on your property, but they can turn up. If your property is his last known address then court papers will also likely be served there as well.

Because of the nature of his work he has no fixed address, per se, but he spends a lot of time at his girlfriend's in London.  

In terms of debt collectors, let's say for example they take the TV.  Am I able to just say, sorry that TV is mine and that's the end of it?  Or would I need to prove ownership with a receipt?  I don't keep receipts that long, and many of my luxury items are over 5 years old.  

It is frustrating because I work hard to stay out of debt, and this guy just brings problems to my house.  

I have asked my wife for him to change his address, she agreed but he has since been leaning on her and she says he has no other address and it is "ok" because it is "an HMRC error, not his"  I will check what happens for the next 2 weeks and beyond that date I will return all his mail with "does not live at this address".  

MattMattMattUK

ad1927 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

ad1927 said:

My brother in law (BIL) has been getting his post sent to my address for the past few years.  

He has recently had a very large rebate (16000) from HMRC, covering 4 years of taxes.  Both he and my wife are sketchy about the details, but  he recently moved to becoming self assessed.  My wife suggested I do the same so I could payless tax.  I refused, basically saying Paye is simpler.

My own thoughts are that my BIL was given a tax rebate in lieu of filing self assessment tax forms.  Needless to say, it is unlikely he has filed anything.

Today he received a letter saying that there is a missing payment for his self assessment tax of circa 10000 pounds.  His response was that it is simply wrong, he pays tax weekly (he is paid weekly so thinks this covers it!) and he has no intention of contacting HMRC.

I have read that HMRC have a number of methods to get the money (and yes, I know, they WILL get the money).  One of which includes taking his possessions.  That would involve a debt collection agency coming to my house where he has no possessions.  In such a scenario, can a debt collection agency assume that he owns things in my house and take them or claim them?  Would it be upto me to then prove I own these things (tricky because I have no receipts).  He lives hundreds of miles away and we've already received letters from debt collectors about other unpaid bills, his bank account is overdrawn (£1500 on average), and the tax rebate he was awarded in January had disappeared by May.  It is clear to me he has no intention and/or means to repay, and he has no understanding on what self assessment means.  He just thinks he's spotted a loophole that allows him to avoid tax paying.

Is the simplest solution for me to return all such post with a "does not live at this address" message?  

All advice welcome.

Yes, especially if he is unwilling to change the addresses himself. Why was he using your address in the first place? Is he on the electoral roll and/or council tax at your address? 

Debt collectors have no claim on your property, but they can turn up. If your property is his last known address then court papers will also likely be served there as well.

Because of the nature of his work he has no fixed address, per se, but he spends a lot of time at his girlfriend's in London.  

Is he on the electoral roll and council tax at your home, somewhere else, or is he technically "of no fixed abode"?

ad1927 said:

In terms of debt collectors, let's say for example they take the TV.  Am I able to just say, sorry that TV is mine and that's the end of it?  Or would I need to prove ownership with a receipt?  I don't keep receipts that long, and many of my luxury items are over 5 years old.  

They can not take anything that is yours, they can only take his property, however they can not do any of that without first obtaining a CCJ then and going down the enforcement process. That process takes time and involves paperwork, if court documents start turning up then you will need to approach things differently, if only to make your life easier. 

ad1927 said:

It is frustrating because I work hard to stay out of debt, and this guy just brings problems to my house.  

His stupidity can not have any real impact on you so long as you have no financial association, you might need to return letters, tell a court he does not live there etc. but that is all manageable. 

ad1927 said:

I have asked my wife for him to change his address, she agreed but he has since been leaning on her and she says he has no other address and it is "ok" because it is "an HMRC error, not his"  I will check what happens for the next 2 weeks and beyond that date I will return all his mail with "does not live at this address".  

I would come down hard on this, give him until the end of the week to change his address as it only takes five minutes online to change bank and HMRC addresses, then start returning mail to the senders. This guy is obviously has financial issues and whilst they will not impact you financially, if he is claiming he is living at your address (also technically fraud as he is not living there), then they can impact you in terms of dealing with the fallout. 

ad1927

MattMattMattUK said:

ad1927 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

ad1927 said:

My brother in law (BIL) has been getting his post sent to my address for the past few years.  

He has recently had a very large rebate (16000) from HMRC, covering 4 years of taxes.  Both he and my wife are sketchy about the details, but  he recently moved to becoming self assessed.  My wife suggested I do the same so I could payless tax.  I refused, basically saying Paye is simpler.

My own thoughts are that my BIL was given a tax rebate in lieu of filing self assessment tax forms.  Needless to say, it is unlikely he has filed anything.

Today he received a letter saying that there is a missing payment for his self assessment tax of circa 10000 pounds.  His response was that it is simply wrong, he pays tax weekly (he is paid weekly so thinks this covers it!) and he has no intention of contacting HMRC.

I have read that HMRC have a number of methods to get the money (and yes, I know, they WILL get the money).  One of which includes taking his possessions.  That would involve a debt collection agency coming to my house where he has no possessions.  In such a scenario, can a debt collection agency assume that he owns things in my house and take them or claim them?  Would it be upto me to then prove I own these things (tricky because I have no receipts).  He lives hundreds of miles away and we've already received letters from debt collectors about other unpaid bills, his bank account is overdrawn (£1500 on average), and the tax rebate he was awarded in January had disappeared by May.  It is clear to me he has no intention and/or means to repay, and he has no understanding on what self assessment means.  He just thinks he's spotted a loophole that allows him to avoid tax paying.

Is the simplest solution for me to return all such post with a "does not live at this address" message?  

All advice welcome.

Yes, especially if he is unwilling to change the addresses himself. Why was he using your address in the first place? Is he on the electoral roll and/or council tax at your address? 

Debt collectors have no claim on your property, but they can turn up. If your property is his last known address then court papers will also likely be served there as well.

Because of the nature of his work he has no fixed address, per se, but he spends a lot of time at his girlfriend's in London.  

Is he on the electoral roll and council tax at your home, somewhere else, or is he technically "of no fixed abode"?

ad1927 said:

In terms of debt collectors, let's say for example they take the TV.  Am I able to just say, sorry that TV is mine and that's the end of it?  Or would I need to prove ownership with a receipt?  I don't keep receipts that long, and many of my luxury items are over 5 years old.  

They can not take anything that is yours, they can only take his property, however they can not do any of that without first obtaining a CCJ then and going down the enforcement process. That process takes time and involves paperwork, if court documents start turning up then you will need to approach things differently, if only to make your life easier. 

ad1927 said:

It is frustrating because I work hard to stay out of debt, and this guy just brings problems to my house.  

His stupidity can not have any real impact on you so long as you have no financial association, you might need to return letters, tell a court he does not live there etc. but that is all manageable. 

ad1927 said:

I have asked my wife for him to change his address, she agreed but he has since been leaning on her and she says he has no other address and it is "ok" because it is "an HMRC error, not his"  I will check what happens for the next 2 weeks and beyond that date I will return all his mail with "does not live at this address".  

I would come down hard on this, give him until the end of the week to change his address as it only takes five minutes online to change bank and HMRC addresses, then start returning mail to the senders. This guy is obviously has financial issues and whilst they will not impact you financially, if he is claiming he is living at your address (also technically fraud as he is not living there), then they can impact you in terms of dealing with the fallout. 

Thanks Matt,

So yes, he is on the electoral role at my address, despite me telling my wife he cannot do this because it is incorrect.  He isn't listed on the Council Tax.  His work involves travel around the UK, and he tends to stay at caravan sites and so on.  What started off as using our address for correspondence (i.e. bank statements and wage slips) has become something more significant (i.e. electoral role, letters from credit agencies over upaid bills).

Thanks for laying out the procedure (i.e. a CCJ) - I was concerned that one day someone would knock when I wasn't in and my wife or step-daughter would let them in.

Like you say, the guy has financial issues, and he is laughing them off because he isn't getting any of the fallout.  My wife is, perhaps, a little worried about upsetting him but why should we have to deal with his negligent attitude to finance.