6 month probation period on a 5 month Fixed Term Contract?

lloyde92

Hi there. Just hoping to clarify something on a new FTC.
I'm essentially wondering what my notice period would be if i signed this - 6 weeks or 4 weeks?
Thanks so much for any help

4 Probationary Period and Conditions of Employment 
4.1 The initial length of the probationary period applicable to Your employment with the Company is six months....
4.2 During the probationary period, or at any time up to the Company’s confirmation that  You have been successful in Your probation, either party may terminate Your  employment by giving not less than one months’ notice. 
18 Notice of Termination of Employment 
18.1 Subject to Clause 18.3, Your employment will be for a fixed term beginning 24th May  2021 and ending 29th October 2021 at which time it will terminate unless otherwise  agreed in writing between You and the Company. Notwithstanding that this contract is  for a fixed term, subject to Clause 4 and Subject to Clause 18.3 either Party may  terminate Your employment by giving the other six weeks’ notice in writing except  where your statutory entitlement to notice exceeds this, in which case you will receive  the longer period. 

Marcon

lloyde92 said:

Hi there. Just hoping to clarify something on a new FTC.
I'm essentially wondering what my notice period would be if i signed this - 6 weeks or 4 weeks?
Thanks so much for any help

4 Probationary Period and Conditions of Employment 
4.1 The initial length of the probationary period applicable to Your employment with the Company is six months....
4.2 During the probationary period, or at any time up to the Company’s confirmation that  You have been successful in Your probation, either party may terminate Your  employment by giving not less than one months’ notice. 
18 Notice of Termination of Employment 
18.1 Subject to Clause 18.3, Your employment will be for a fixed term beginning 24th May  2021 and ending 29th October 2021 at which time it will terminate unless otherwise  agreed in writing between You and the Company. Notwithstanding that this contract is  for a fixed term, subject to Clause 4 and Subject to Clause 18.3 either Party may  terminate Your employment by giving the other six weeks’ notice in writing except  where your statutory entitlement to notice exceeds this, in which case you will receive  the longer period. 

Clearly an employer who hasn't read their own contract! I'd ask them to make sure the parties are in agreement.

lloyde92

Thanks Marcon - that's what I thought, seemed a bit odd.
I'm assuming if I signed this then my notice period would be 4 weeks (as per the probation period), as I imagine the probation period rules would take precedence.

Marcon

lloyde92 said:

Thanks Marcon - that's what I thought, seemed a bit odd.
I'm assuming if I signed this then my notice period would be 4 weeks (as per the probation period), as I imagine the probation period rules would take precedence.

Given that Clause 18 is subject to Clause 14, yes - although what does Clause 18.3 say?

Sandtree

During probation its 4 weeks, after probation its 6 weeks.

Probation is ordinarily 6 months but there is a concept of passing probation. Its not abundantly clear if you can pass probation in a quicker time than 6 months.

Marcon said:

lloyde92 said:

Hi there. Just hoping to clarify something on a new FTC.
I'm essentially wondering what my notice period would be if i signed this - 6 weeks or 4 weeks?
Thanks so much for any help

4 Probationary Period and Conditions of Employment 
4.1 The initial length of the probationary period applicable to Your employment with the Company is six months....
4.2 During the probationary period, or at any time up to the Company’s confirmation that  You have been successful in Your probation, either party may terminate Your  employment by giving not less than one months’ notice. 
18 Notice of Termination of Employment 
18.1 Subject to Clause 18.3, Your employment will be for a fixed term beginning 24th May  2021 and ending 29th October 2021 at which time it will terminate unless otherwise  agreed in writing between You and the Company. Notwithstanding that this contract is  for a fixed term, subject to Clause 4 and Subject to Clause 18.3 either Party may  terminate Your employment by giving the other six weeks’ notice in writing except  where your statutory entitlement to notice exceeds this, in which case you will receive  the longer period. 

Clearly an employer who hasn't read their own contract! I'd ask them to make sure the parties are in agreement.

Why do you think they've not read it? Its normal for FTC to follow a normal employee contract and if the OP is extended by another 5 months then they will most likely come out of probation during that extension.

Marcon

Sandtree said:

During probation its 4 weeks, after probation its 6 weeks.

Probation is ordinarily 6 months but there is a concept of passing probation. Its not abundantly clear if you can pass probation in a quicker time than 6 months.

Marcon said:

lloyde92 said:

Hi there. Just hoping to clarify something on a new FTC.
I'm essentially wondering what my notice period would be if i signed this - 6 weeks or 4 weeks?
Thanks so much for any help

4 Probationary Period and Conditions of Employment 
4.1 The initial length of the probationary period applicable to Your employment with the Company is six months....
4.2 During the probationary period, or at any time up to the Company’s confirmation that  You have been successful in Your probation, either party may terminate Your  employment by giving not less than one months’ notice. 
18 Notice of Termination of Employment 
18.1 Subject to Clause 18.3, Your employment will be for a fixed term beginning 24th May  2021 and ending 29th October 2021 at which time it will terminate unless otherwise  agreed in writing between You and the Company. Notwithstanding that this contract is  for a fixed term, subject to Clause 4 and Subject to Clause 18.3 either Party may  terminate Your employment by giving the other six weeks’ notice in writing except  where your statutory entitlement to notice exceeds this, in which case you will receive  the longer period. 

Clearly an employer who hasn't read their own contract! I'd ask them to make sure the parties are in agreement.

Why do you think they've not read it? Its normal for FTC to follow a normal employee contract and if the OP is extended by another 5 months then they will most likely come out of probation during that extension.

Because on a stand alone basis it doesn't make sense. It's a half-baked hatchet job by a lazy (or incompetent) HR person. Probation has no legal meaning, so it would make a lot more sense to use a well-drafted, clear contract.

General_Grant

As already asked, what does clause 18.3 say?
And a month is not normally 4 weeks.  Except for most Februarys it's more than that.

getmore4less

The 6 weeks gets overrode by clause 4, 1month during probation (which is nominally 6 month s but can be longer or shorter)
Then subject to clause 18.3

Clause 18.3 might be making notice by employee the same as employer as as written employee notice maxes out 6 weeks employer notice maxes out at 12 weeks.

lloyde92

Thanks. General_Grant - here is 18.3:

18.3 Notwithstanding any other provisions in this Agreement, the Company may terminate

Your employment with immediate effect without notice and with no liability to make any

further payments (other than in respect of amounts accrued at the date of termination)

or pay in lieu of notice if the Company believes You have committed any gross

misconduct.

General_Grant

OK.  
So, unless they claim you had committed gross misconduct and therefore could be summarily dismissed, they would need to give you one month's notice even if they had done so on 24 May.
As I read it, unless they decided to tell you you had passed probation earlier than the six months, the longer equal notice period would only kick in if you had had the contract extended beyond six months and had confirmation of a successful probation as it is not automatic at the six-month point but requires actual confirmation. 

Sandtree

Marcon said:

Sandtree said:

During probation its 4 weeks, after probation its 6 weeks.

Probation is ordinarily 6 months but there is a concept of passing probation. Its not abundantly clear if you can pass probation in a quicker time than 6 months.

Marcon said:

lloyde92 said:

Hi there. Just hoping to clarify something on a new FTC.
I'm essentially wondering what my notice period would be if i signed this - 6 weeks or 4 weeks?
Thanks so much for any help

4 Probationary Period and Conditions of Employment 
4.1 The initial length of the probationary period applicable to Your employment with the Company is six months....
4.2 During the probationary period, or at any time up to the Company’s confirmation that  You have been successful in Your probation, either party may terminate Your  employment by giving not less than one months’ notice. 
18 Notice of Termination of Employment 
18.1 Subject to Clause 18.3, Your employment will be for a fixed term beginning 24th May  2021 and ending 29th October 2021 at which time it will terminate unless otherwise  agreed in writing between You and the Company. Notwithstanding that this contract is  for a fixed term, subject to Clause 4 and Subject to Clause 18.3 either Party may  terminate Your employment by giving the other six weeks’ notice in writing except  where your statutory entitlement to notice exceeds this, in which case you will receive  the longer period. 

Clearly an employer who hasn't read their own contract! I'd ask them to make sure the parties are in agreement.

Why do you think they've not read it? Its normal for FTC to follow a normal employee contract and if the OP is extended by another 5 months then they will most likely come out of probation during that extension.

Because on a stand alone basis it doesn't make sense. It's a half-baked hatchet job by a lazy (or incompetent) HR person. Probation has no legal meaning, so it would make a lot more sense to use a well-drafted, clear contract.

Why does it need to have a legal basis meaning? It has a common language meaning and even if they called it something totally different it still drives the change in notice period.

It becomes very complicated to have someone on a 5 month contract and then extend them for another 3 months but introduce the new concept of a 1 month period of 4 weeks notice and 2 month period with 6 weeks notice. 

Its a short sighted or inexperienced HR person that tries to botch a 5 month FTC and then a different contract for any extension rather than creating one contract that deals with anything from 1 to 24 month FTC