'We notice you've been using iPlayer?' email after watching iPlayer at parents house

Cornucopia

coffeehound said:

Probably not from the web interface, but the app could access to that sort of device info

Could be, in theory, but isn't.  And what good would it be whilst the App doesn't know the TV Licence number?

The reality is that the Portable equipment exemption is probably rarely used in circumstances where it would make the difference between a viable evasion case and not.   Therefore not worth TV Licensing worrying too much about technical solutions that would likely be more trouble (in false alarms) than they were worth.  

The emails that the OP is reporting are a quick and dirty approach that amount to nothing more than just another deceptively-worded scare tactic. 

prowla

From the iPlayer T&Cs:

If you already have a TV Licence for your address, you are already covered to download or watch BBC programmes on BBC iPlayer when you’re on the go, provided the device you’re using isn’t plugged into the electricity mains at a separate address. If the device is plugged in at a separate address, you need to be covered by a licence at that address.

On a technicality, if it's a laptop: they usually have a separate power supply, so the laptop itself is not plugged into the mains; QED...

Similarly with a tablet (eg. iPad).

As for using your account at a house which is also licenced anyway, then it would be pretty tenuous and presumably indefensible for the company to claim licence infringement.

coffeehound

@Cornucopia I don't doubt that youre right.  But from the discussion upthread, wouldn't the OP automatically be in breach using a disconnected mobile device without a licence?

Grumpy_chap

Cornucopia said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Were you on the laptop battery or plugged in to the mains?
TV Licence website say that matters, if you are plugged into the mains, covered by the licence at the property.  If you are on battery, covered by the licence at your home (except it seems you don't have that).
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one (under answers to your questions - do I need a licence to watch TV away from home?)
Not sure how, or if, they can detect whether the laptop is plugged in or on battery.

It doesn't matter in the OP's case, and you have it slightly wrong, anyway.
If the premises that you are in have a Licence then you can watch what you want.
If you have a Licence at your own home, you can use portable equipment anywhere (powered by its own batteries).

They have no means of detecting anything, certainly not whether a laptop is plugged in or not.

I am happy to be incorrect, but not sure that I am.  I paraphrased directly from the TV Licensing site and provided the link for reference / verification.  This specifically refers to the OP using their laptop away from their home (at the OP's parents):

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one

If you’re watching away from your home on a phone, tablet or laptop, and:

• you plug your device into the mains, you’ll be covered if that property already has a TV Licence (e.g. you go to a friend’s house and they have a licence). Otherwise, you’ll need to buy a separate TV Licence for that property.
• your device is not plugged in (i.e. you’re watching or recording live TV programmes on any channel, or downloading or watching BBC programmes on BBC iPlayer, using devices powered solely by internal batteries) you will be covered by your home TV Licence.

That extract from the TV Licensing page (under the question "Do I need a TV Licence to watch TV away from home?")  specifically draws a distinction between operating on battery or operating plugged in.  The OP stated they do not have a TV licence, so would need to be plugged in when at their parent's house.

Dan54321 said:

I don't have a TV license as I don't watch live TV or iPlayer at my home address. I made a declaration to say I didn't need a TV license. Occasionally I will watch iPlayer on my laptop or playstation using my iPlayer account *at my parents house*, which is covered by a TV license. 

I have just noticed the asterixis around " *at my parents house* " so does this mean the OP is not actually at the parent's house?

It seems doubtful that the TV License could detect if the OP is plugged in or on battery when at the parent's house, but they likely could detect if the OP is not at the parent's house but somewhere else.  Maybe that is what initiates the contact e-mails.

Cornucopia

coffeehound said:

@Cornucopia I don't doubt that youre right.  But from the discussion upthread, wouldn't the OP automatically be in breach using a disconnected mobile device without a licence?

The discussion upthread is incorrect.   The OP is not "in breach" by watching iPlayer at their Parents' Licensed house irrespective of how they watch, or on what.   The entire premises and everyone and everything within it are covered by the Parents' Licence.

If people are confused by the apparently miraculous nature of the claims in the TV Licensing e-mail, don't be.   They are a theatrical trick, based on a quick and dirty misuse of existing data to produce an accusation that is not nearly definitive enough to be appropriate.

Cornucopia

Grumpy_chap said:
I am happy to be incorrect, but not sure that I am.  I paraphrased directly from the TV Licensing site and provided the link for reference / verification.  This specifically refers to the OP using their laptop away from their home (at the OP's parents)...

I can understand why you've drawn that conclusion from the quote you've provided, but it's still wrong, and worse, the quote itself is unnecessarily capable of being misunderstood.

What they are trying to do is describe the two different ways in which you (the reader) are covered by a Licence when you are watching TV broadcasts or iPlayer away from home.   In that context, what they say makes sense.   However, the two alternatives are two completely different scenarios, and it is incorrect to draw the conclusion that they are mutually exclusive.   (It certainly doesn't say that, which is good because it isn't true).

It would be better for them to say this:   You will be covered for [TV viewing] away from home, if the address where you are watching has a Licence.   Additionally, if you have a Licence at your own home address you may also watch on a portable device powered by its own batteries.

Grumpy_chap said:

I have just noticed the asterixis around " *at my parents house* " so does this mean the OP is not actually at the parent's house?

It seems doubtful that the TV License could detect if the OP is plugged in or on battery when at the parent's house, but they likely could detect if the OP is not at the parent's house but somewhere else.  Maybe that is what initiates the contact e-mails.

I think the OP was just trying to emphasise that they were viewing at their Parents' house.

I'm not sure how I can be any clearer about this:   there is no electronic or otherwise automated enforcement of the TV Licence in the UK.   None.  There is no processing of IP addresses in order to link them to street addresses, and no ISP would participate in such a thing.  

The enforcement e-mails are triggered by a matching email address between a No Licence Needed submission and an actively used BBC Account (even though it should be immediately obvious what the pitfalls of such an approach would be).

Grumpy_chap

Cornucopia said:

I can understand why you've drawn that conclusion from the quote you've provided, but it's still wrong, and worse, the quote itself is unnecessarily capable of being misunderstood.

Thank you for providing the clarification.
The quote was, clearly, misunderstood.  No ambiguity in the way you re-worded things:

Cornucopia said:

It would be better for them to say this:   You will be covered for [TV viewing] away from home, if the address where you are watching has a Licence.   Additionally, if you have a Licence at your own home address you may also watch on a portable device powered by its own batteries.

Barny1979

JJ_Egan said:

Does IPlayer have a guest account that could be used ?

No, you cannot logon as a guest.

phillw

Cornucopia said:
They have no means of detecting anything, certainly not whether a laptop is plugged in or not.

Depends on the browser you are using, there is a battery status api but it was dropped from firefox

Cornucopia

phillw said:

Cornucopia said:
They have no means of detecting anything, certainly not whether a laptop is plugged in or not.

Depends on the browser you are using, there is a battery status api but it was dropped from firefox

When I said "they", I meant TV Licensing.   They have no electronic means of detecting anything.   They use actual people with actual paper to go door-to-actual door down actual streets.   

Whether "detection" by electronic means is technically, practically and legally feasible is a different question to whether it is in use.   It isn't.