Holiday pay after leaving - Any HR help?

GrumpyDil

I think what is being missed is that holiday is paid. So if she had 42 hours holiday owed but was due to work 48 hours then she should get paid 42 hours but not paid for the final 6 hours. That's of course ignoring any discussion over what was agreed with HR and her short notice etc. 

[Deleted User]

You may want to keep an eye on pension credits.
I had an Employer in Jan 21 who kept just over 2 weeks wages in full and also submitted a furlough claim straight after for around a further month recompense to them (so in total they ended up 6 weeks better off) but it ended up quite clear they didn't get out of pension credit.

getmore4less

Adviceneededplzz said:

Hello. Please can someone offer some advice before ACAS are called this week.
sorry if this is confusing. It’s been driving us round the bend!
I've tried to explain it as simply as possible.
Background:
My wife worked at a company for 8 months from September 2020 to May 2021.
Holiday entitlement was 28 days including bank holidays and holiday year began on January 1st 2021.
She left on May 27th so this amounts to 90 hours of holiday earned for this year.

She took a total of 48 hours holiday during this year, so is owed 42 hours holiday by the company.

Her contract states she must give 4 weeks notice. She gave them 2 weeks and 4 days notice as she needed to start her new job by the week after. This was explained via a letter.
A couple of weeks later, HR (who are very rude/verging on bullying, hence the reason she left) held a meeting and stated that this was a “breach of contract.”

My wife apologised again for the shorter notice of 2 weeks and 4 days instead of 4 weeks, and told them they were welcome to use her holiday allowance to make up the remaining notice. 

This amounted to 48 hours owed.
(remember she only had 42 hours holiday allowance, so fully expected the rest to be taken from wages)

The HR managers response to this was simply “fine”.

She has now left after completing the 2 weeks and 4 days notice and has not been paid.
She emailed to ask when she could expect her pay and received a very rude email stating they did not agree to her ending her contract early (untrue, she had a meeting about this).
They state she owes them 48 hours for the short notice and they have provided a breakdown of upcoming final pay.
In this, they have deducted 48 hours of pay from her final wage. Leaving her with hundreds of pounds less than we had worked it out to.

It appears the 42 hours of holiday pay hasn't been paid to her, it has just been written off against what she owed them? 

Is this correct? 

starting with the holiday as you have mixed days and hours.
Assuming 5day week worker
You say notice was 4 weeks worked 2w4d and the 1w1d would be 48hours that's 8hr days

Allowance is 28 days, holiday year is calendar.
pro rata to 27 May is
(using weeks) 22/52 11.85 days   Accrued holiday would be 94.8 hours.
(using days) 127/365 11./28days Accrued holiday would be 90.2 hours
They should not round down to 90.
Were the 4 BH taken any other days taken off to have used 48 that would be 2 other days?

The next thing you need to know is the pay period  and the pay days.
The pay period may not be calendar month  you need to know which days of the 2w4 days fall into which pay period.
on termination the accrued unused holiday should be paid or if it was agreed for garden leave in the pay period it falls.

What is due is pay up to last day and any accrued unused holiday
When that pay is due will be down to the pay periods they fall in and the pay day for that pay period.. 


Why did she not book that week off with the Friday and then resign to finish the 4 weeks notice to coincide with the end of the holiday.

Not working notice without proper agreement is risky as you can get sued for costs and they can inform any potential new employer putting the new job at risk before you start or even after starting.
They also have the option of just not paying you on time and making life difficult.

Adviceneededplzz said:

JamoLew said:

You/She will probably have to wait untill her final payslip is received which will be ?end of June

They can’t deduct the 48 hours pay AND not pay for the 42 hours owed

They aren’t releasing her final payslip until she signs the letter that says “I acknowledge my departure was never agreed” lol totally untrue.
”I will not make any further claims for remuneration”
They’ve said if she signs this they will release her pay. Sound dodgy to me.

The response to
”I will not make any further claims for remuneration”
is to add 
"if the final pay includes all contractual payment due including pay due up to the leaving date  27th May and payment for the accrued unused holiday of 42 hours"

Agreeing or not to early departure should be a separate claim by them if they want compensation.  

Adviceneededplzz

GrumpyDil said:

I think what is being missed is that holiday is paid. So if she had 42 hours holiday owed but was due to work 48 hours then she should get paid 42 hours but not paid for the final 6 hours. That's of course ignoring any discussion over what was agreed with HR and her short notice etc. 

This is spot on to how we are thinking.
how do we explain this to HR when they are saying we are wrong? Probably time to get ACAS involved.

Adviceneededplzz

getmore4less said:

Adviceneededplzz said:

Hello. Please can someone offer some advice before ACAS are called this week.
sorry if this is confusing. It’s been driving us round the bend!
I've tried to explain it as simply as possible.
Background:
My wife worked at a company for 8 months from September 2020 to May 2021.
Holiday entitlement was 28 days including bank holidays and holiday year began on January 1st 2021.
She left on May 27th so this amounts to 90 hours of holiday earned for this year.

She took a total of 48 hours holiday during this year, so is owed 42 hours holiday by the company.

Her contract states she must give 4 weeks notice. She gave them 2 weeks and 4 days notice as she needed to start her new job by the week after. This was explained via a letter.
A couple of weeks later, HR (who are very rude/verging on bullying, hence the reason she left) held a meeting and stated that this was a “breach of contract.”

My wife apologised again for the shorter notice of 2 weeks and 4 days instead of 4 weeks, and told them they were welcome to use her holiday allowance to make up the remaining notice. 

This amounted to 48 hours owed.
(remember she only had 42 hours holiday allowance, so fully expected the rest to be taken from wages)

The HR managers response to this was simply “fine”.

She has now left after completing the 2 weeks and 4 days notice and has not been paid.
She emailed to ask when she could expect her pay and received a very rude email stating they did not agree to her ending her contract early (untrue, she had a meeting about this).
They state she owes them 48 hours for the short notice and they have provided a breakdown of upcoming final pay.
In this, they have deducted 48 hours of pay from her final wage. Leaving her with hundreds of pounds less than we had worked it out to.

It appears the 42 hours of holiday pay hasn't been paid to her, it has just been written off against what she owed them? 

Is this correct? 

starting with the holiday as you have mixed days and hours.
Assuming 5day week worker
You say notice was 4 weeks worked 2w4d and the 1w1d would be 48hours that's 8hr days

Allowance is 28 days, holiday year is calendar.
pro rata to 27 May is
(using weeks) 22/52 11.85 days   Accrued holiday would be 94.8 hours.
(using days) 127/365 11./28days Accrued holiday would be 90.2 hours
They should not round down to 90.
Were the 4 BH taken any other days taken off to have used 48 that would be 2 other days?

The next thing you need to know is the pay period  and the pay days.
The pay period may not be calendar month  you need to know which days of the 2w4 days fall into which pay period.
on termination the accrued unused holiday should be paid or if it was agreed for garden leave in the pay period it falls.

What is due is pay up to last day and any accrued unused holiday
When that pay is due will be down to the pay periods they fall in and the pay day for that pay period.. 


Why did she not book that week off with the Friday and then resign to finish the 4 weeks notice to coincide with the end of the holiday.

Not working notice without proper agreement is risky as you can get sued for costs and they can inform any potential new employer putting the new job at risk before you start or even after starting.
They also have the option of just not paying you on time and making life difficult.

Adviceneededplzz said:

JamoLew said:

You/She will probably have to wait untill her final payslip is received which will be ?end of June

They can’t deduct the 48 hours pay AND not pay for the 42 hours owed

They aren’t releasing her final payslip until she signs the letter that says “I acknowledge my departure was never agreed” lol totally untrue.
”I will not make any further claims for remuneration”
They’ve said if she signs this they will release her pay. Sound dodgy to me.

The response to
”I will not make any further claims for remuneration”
is to add 
"if the final pay includes all contractual payment due including pay due up to the leaving date  27th May and payment for the accrued unused holiday of 42 hours"

Agreeing or not to early departure should be a separate claim by them if they want compensation.  

Thank you, most of what you’ve worked out here is correct. Give it take a couple of hours.

She didn’t book it off as holiday at the time as there was very little work in the last couple of months, so genuinely didn’t think it’d be a problem. People had been sitting twiddling their thumbs for a few weeks with little to do.
So she gave them shorter notice, in hindsight shouldn’t have.

what we are asking is, as she asked them to use her holiday for that final 1 weeks and 1 day, why haven’t they paid her it?
it’s her holiday allowance to use and in the meeting was told it’s fine.
Surely they can’t let her take the holiday but not pay her for it.
Again, keep in mind there was no work when she left so wasn’t like they needed a replacement for her.
She made a great impression there and her line manager said he would happily sing her praises to anyone.
Her new job didn’t need a reference as she worked for them for 4 years.