Holiday deductions from final wage.

Razma

I'm hoping somebody can explain that to me, as simply as possible, because I'm feeling mugged off.

I've recently started a new job. Worked my weeks notice from previous employer and was expecting a final wage from them tomorrow. I got the pay slip, for tomorrows pay, and was shocked to find they've deducted £350 from 'holiday pay'.
The manager said this is because I took 2 weeks (of the 5 I was entitled to) last month. Now, these 2 weeks were mandatory. How holidays work there is weird. You're given a holiday rota. You get given 2 weeks winter and 2 weeks summer so I didn't take these holidays by choice.

Am I in the wrong for thinking they've wrongfully taken this money from me?

Gavin83

Did the holiday period run from Apr-Mar? If so yes, you're in the wrong. You only build up holiday for the period you work and therefore would have only had a few days to take. The fact that the holiday you took was mandatory doesn't affect this, you still owe the money.

You can of course ask for calculations and check they've done it right but you don't seem to be disputing this, just whether the mandatory holiday counts. It does. It's unfortunate and they probably should have explained it but you likely owe the money.

74jax

Razma said:

I'm hoping somebody can explain that to me, as simply as possible, because I'm feeling mugged off.

I've recently started a new job. Worked my weeks notice from previous employer and was expecting a final wage from them tomorrow. I got the pay slip, for tomorrows pay, and was shocked to find they've deducted £350 from 'holiday pay'.
The manager said this is because I took 2 weeks (of the 5 I was entitled to) last month. Now, these 2 weeks were mandatory. How holidays work there is weird. You're given a holiday rota. You get given 2 weeks winter and 2 weeks summer so I didn't take these holidays by choice.

Am I in the wrong for thinking they've wrongfully taken this money from me?

You say how their holidays work is 'weird', can you explain how they are weird - it might help us if they do something a little out of the ordinary.

You say you were entitled to 5 weeks holiday, if you have only used 2 weeks, surely you should be paid for 3 weeks not used, rather than deducted 2 weeks.  That doesn't make sense.

Could it be the holiday year runs different to what you think, and you hadn't actually accrued those 5 weeks yet maybe?  Do you know what your holiday year is, and how many you have taken in that year?

Razma

Gavin83 said:

Did the holiday period run from Apr-Mar? If so yes, you're in the wrong. You only build up holiday for the period you work and therefore would have only had a few days to take. The fact that the holiday you took was mandatory doesn't affect this, you still owe the money.

You can of course ask for calculations and check they've done it right but you don't seem to be disputing this, just whether the mandatory holiday counts. It does. It's unfortunate and they probably should have explained it but you likely owe the money.

I think I get it now. It was unfortunate timing of the holiday dates in relation to me leaving.
Entirely my misunderstanding.
Guess I'm living on pasta for the next 3 weeks. 😅

74jax

Razma said:

Gavin83 said:

Did the holiday period run from Apr-Mar? If so yes, you're in the wrong. You only build up holiday for the period you work and therefore would have only had a few days to take. The fact that the holiday you took was mandatory doesn't affect this, you still owe the money.

You can of course ask for calculations and check they've done it right but you don't seem to be disputing this, just whether the mandatory holiday counts. It does. It's unfortunate and they probably should have explained it but you likely owe the money.

I think I get it now. It was unfortunate timing of the holiday dates in relation to me leaving.
Entirely my misunderstanding.
Guess I'm living on pasta for the next 3 weeks. 😅

Only if you haven't actually got 5 weeks accrued holiday.  You should still work out they have deducted the correct amount.  

TELLIT01

I can understand the OP feeling it's unfair as it seems they had no option but to take 2 weeks holiday despite not yet accruing.  Unfortunately the action taken by the employer seems to be perfectly legal.

Razma

TELLIT01 said:

I can understand the OP feeling it's unfair as it seems they had no option but to take 2 weeks holiday despite not yet accruing.  Unfortunately the action taken by the employer seems to be perfectly legal.

Exactly that. It just seems wrong from my perspective. Being told I have to take those holidays and then penalising me for it when I left.

Legal? I suppose.
Morally right? Not really.

getmore4less

It is only legal to deduct holiday pay when  holiday taken within a holiday year exceeds the amount accrued by working only part of that holiday year if there is a suitable clause in the contract.

Does your contract have such a clause?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/14/made
(4) A relevant agreement may provide that, where the proportion of leave taken by the worker exceeds the proportion of the leave year which has expired, he shall compensate his employer, whether by a payment, by undertaking additional work or otherwise.


there is a secondary issue that you are entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday minimum so there needs to be some other time  included in the calculation(25+BH is fairly typical) this may increase or decrease the net depending on the holiday year.

TBagpuss

Razma said:

TELLIT01 said:

I can understand the OP feeling it's unfair as it seems they had no option but to take 2 weeks holiday despite not yet accruing.  Unfortunately the action taken by the employer seems to be perfectly legal.

Exactly that. It just seems wrong from my perspective. Being told I have to take those holidays and then penalising me for it when I left.

Legal? I suppose.
Morally right? Not really.

Well, they didn't penalise you - they just didn't give you free money.
Presumably if you had accrued more holiday than you had taken you would have expected them to pay you for that?

And as you mention a week's notice, and having had the time off last month,  it sounds as though you had the time off before you handed in your notice, so they would not have known that it would take you over your holiday entitlement.  

So they haven't done anything wrong either morally or legally, it's just that the way that the contract worked didn't operate in your favour on this particular occasion.

It's always a good idea to make sure that you understand how your holiday entitlements work,  and that if you plan to hand in your notice, you work out how much holiday you are owed, or if you have taken more than you've accrued - that way, you can check that your employer works out your final pay correctly, and can plan ahead if it means that you may get more or less than your normal pay in your final pay packet. 

getmore4less

TBagpuss said:

Razma said:

TELLIT01 said:

I can understand the OP feeling it's unfair as it seems they had no option but to take 2 weeks holiday despite not yet accruing.  Unfortunately the action taken by the employer seems to be perfectly legal.

Exactly that. It just seems wrong from my perspective. Being told I have to take those holidays and then penalising me for it when I left.

Legal? I suppose.
Morally right? Not really.

Well, they didn't penalise you - they just didn't give you free money.
Presumably if you had accrued more holiday than you had taken you would have expected them to pay you for that?

And as you mention a week's notice, and having had the time off last month,  it sounds as though you had the time off before you handed in your notice, so they would not have known that it would take you over your holiday entitlement.  

So they haven't done anything wrong either morally or legally, it's just that the way that the contract worked didn't operate in your favour on this particular occasion.

It's always a good idea to make sure that you understand how your holiday entitlements work,  and that if you plan to hand in your notice, you work out how much holiday you are owed, or if you have taken more than you've accrued - that way, you can check that your employer works out your final pay correctly, and can plan ahead if it means that you may get more or less than your normal pay in your final pay packet. 

How can you know that the op has not posted that section of the contract?

The very first thing to do is check they have recovered the holiday legally by looking for the clause in the contract that gives them that right 

getting paid for not using your holiday is a statutory right,  recovery by the employer for taking more is not.