Defined Benefit / Final Salary Pension

Prism

RoadToRiches said:

Prism said:

I am still not sure that the DB to stakeholder to SIPP process is guaranteed to work, at least not in a suitable timeframe. Lets take Youinvest which has just blocked insistent level transfers from DB pensions, I assume for a need to reduce risk. They don't have to accept transfers from other stakeholder and SIPP pension schemes (they say they accept 'most') so they could restrict transfers from certain stakeholder pensions should they want to - again if they feel there is a risk. If in a few months time there is a large set of transfer requests coming in from the Standard Life stakeholder I think the big SIPP providers will have a decision to make.

Standard life wont take insistant clients acting against advice, my stakeholder pension is with them,  asked them on Friday about the same. Said that I would need a positive outcome from a IFA for them to accept the DB transfer.

Thats interesting. One of the routes for insistent clients was thought to be a Standard Life stakeholder but that seems not to be the case.

xylophone

Said that I would need a positive outcome from a IFA for them to accept the DB transfer.

I wonder if legally they can refuse?
https://www.pruadviser.co.uk/knowledge-literature/knowledge-library/transfer-pension-scheme/

A stakeholder pension scheme is currently the only type of scheme which must accept any transfer from another registered pension scheme.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/1403/made

(6) For the purposes of these Regulations and section 1(8) and (9) (which provide that stakeholder pension schemes must have tax-exemption or tax-approval and must not refuse to accept transfer payments except in so far as necessary to ensure that the scheme has such exemption or approval) “tax-exemption” and “tax-approval” mean tax-exemption and tax-approval under Chapter IV of Part XIV of the Income and Corporation Taxes Act.

kuratowski

Prism said:

I am still not sure that the DB to stakeholder to SIPP process is guaranteed to work, at least not in a suitable timeframe. Lets take Youinvest which has just blocked insistent level transfers from DB pensions, I assume for a need to reduce risk. They don't have to accept transfers from other stakeholder and SIPP pension schemes (they say they accept 'most') so they could restrict transfers from certain stakeholder pensions should they want to - again if they feel there is a risk. If in a few months time there is a large set of transfer requests coming in from the Standard Life stakeholder I think the big SIPP providers will have a decision to make.

I wonder too, how many inbound transfers from DB schemes will it take, before Standard Life decide to cease offering their stakeholder pension directly to customers and start to only offer it through advisers (if at all)?  As AJ Bell have already reached their risk tolerance for this type of business, surely at some point SL will also.

Edit to add: It's already only available via a phone call.  If the call puts you through to an in-house adviser, then perhaps the door is already closed?

Prism

kuratowski said:

Prism said:

I am still not sure that the DB to stakeholder to SIPP process is guaranteed to work, at least not in a suitable timeframe. Lets take Youinvest which has just blocked insistent level transfers from DB pensions, I assume for a need to reduce risk. They don't have to accept transfers from other stakeholder and SIPP pension schemes (they say they accept 'most') so they could restrict transfers from certain stakeholder pensions should they want to - again if they feel there is a risk. If in a few months time there is a large set of transfer requests coming in from the Standard Life stakeholder I think the big SIPP providers will have a decision to make.

I wonder too, how many inbound transfers from DB schemes will it take, before Standard Life decide to cease offering their stakeholder pension directly to customers and start to only offer it through advisers (if at all)?  As AJ Bell have already reached their risk tolerance for this type of business, surely at some point SL will also.

Edit to add: It's already only available via a phone call.  If the call puts you through to an in-house adviser, then perhaps the door is already closed?

Well as RoadToRiches pointed out above, the SL won't accept an insistent client into their stakeholder anyway although this seems to go against stakeholder rules..
I can't imagine SL really want their stakeholder to be a doormat on the way to a SIPP.

dunstonh

I wonder if legally they can refuse?

If it is an intermediary product then yes they can.  It is being blocked at the distribution level rather than the product level.   They want an adviser to take liability for it.

kuratowski

Agreed, although if they don't allow you to open a stakeholder in the first place (without advice) this would appear to be within the rules?

Edit: dunstonh has just confirmed!

xylophone

Agreed, although if they don't allow you to open a stakeholder in the first place (without advice) 

It would seem that the SL stakeholder can be opened  without advice.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6273646/db-transfer/p2

https://www.standardlife.co.uk/pensions/personal-pension/stakeholder

Standard Life also state
https://www.standardlife.co.uk/pensions/guides/about-pension-transfers
If you’re an existing customer, you can simply log in to your account   and request a transfer into your existing Standard Life plan.

An earlier discussion
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78375046/#Comment_78375046

But since it seems that the SL stakeholder can be opened on a non advised basis, once the  client has obtained the (albeit negative) recommendation from his PTS, he should be able to transfer into his SL Stakeholder?

I'm quite confused myself now - perhaps we need a test case!  

kuratowski

Yes, as in my earlier comment, it was a hypothetical situation: in case SL wished to reduce their exposure, they could stop providing stakeholder pensions on a non-advised basis.

xylophone said:

I'm quite confused myself now - perhaps we need a test case!  

Yes this conversation is now taking place on too many threads simultaneously!

Marcon

xylophone said:

Agreed, although if they don't allow you to open a stakeholder in the first place (without advice) 

It would seem that the SL stakeholder can be opened  without advice.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6273646/db-transfer/p2

https://www.standardlife.co.uk/pensions/personal-pension/stakeholder

Standard Life also state
https://www.standardlife.co.uk/pensions/guides/about-pension-transfers
If you’re an existing customer, you can simply log in to your account   and request a transfer into your existing Standard Life plan.

An earlier discussion
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78375046/#Comment_78375046

But since it seems that the SL stakeholder can be opened on a non advised basis, once the  client has obtained the (albeit negative) recommendation from his PTS, he should be able to transfer into his SL Stakeholder?

I'm quite confused myself now - perhaps we need a test case!  

Stakeholder pensions were designed as a low cost product. One way to keep those costs low was to design it so that it could be bought and sold without advice. That remains the case - although clearly some providers, not to mention plenty of advisers, don't seem too familiar with the relevant legislation!

Set up a stakeholder with a few months of regular contributions and then transfer (and no, I'm not suggesting that's a good idea - merely pointing out it's an option for the determined)/

dunstonh

Marcon said:

xylophone said:

Agreed, although if they don't allow you to open a stakeholder in the first place (without advice) 

It would seem that the SL stakeholder can be opened  without advice.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6273646/db-transfer/p2

https://www.standardlife.co.uk/pensions/personal-pension/stakeholder

Standard Life also state
https://www.standardlife.co.uk/pensions/guides/about-pension-transfers
If you’re an existing customer, you can simply log in to your account   and request a transfer into your existing Standard Life plan.

An earlier discussion
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78375046/#Comment_78375046

But since it seems that the SL stakeholder can be opened on a non advised basis, once the  client has obtained the (albeit negative) recommendation from his PTS, he should be able to transfer into his SL Stakeholder?

I'm quite confused myself now - perhaps we need a test case!  

Stakeholder pensions were designed as a low cost product. One way to keep those costs low was to design it so that it could be bought and sold without advice. That remains the case - although clearly some providers, not to mention plenty of advisers, don't seem too familiar with the relevant legislation!

Set up a stakeholder with a few months of regular contributions and then transfer (and no, I'm not suggesting that's a good idea - merely pointing out it's an option for the determined)/

But it has to be a stakeholder that does not accept business only via an intermediary.  They can refuse.