Question About Registering "Enduring Power of Attorney"

MysteryMan

My parents have both set up Enduring Power of Attorney with myself and sister as attorneys (jointly and severally)
Both of them are still "with it" but my father needs help with paperwork and financial stuff, such that we need to use the powers that the Enduring Power of Attorney will give us to interact with banks, etc.
Please note that this is the pre-2007 Enduring Power of Attorney and not the current Lasting Power of Attorney.
My question is do I need to do anything to register/activate this or is it usable already?
It mentions that if we believe the donor (my Dad) is mentally incapable of managing his affairs then we have to apply to the Court of Protection but he isn't and am confused as to whether we need to do anything.
Any advice would be gratefully received!

Alter_ego

We have the same, recognised by the bank with no problem.

MysteryMan

Alter_ego said:

We have the same, recognised by the bank with no problem.

Thanks

Marcon

MysteryMan said:

My parents have both set up Enduring Power of Attorney with myself and sister as attorneys (jointly and severally)
Both of them are still "with it" but my father needs help with paperwork and financial stuff, such that we need to use the powers that the Enduring Power of Attorney will give us to interact with banks, etc.
Please note that this is the pre-2007 Enduring Power of Attorney and not the current Lasting Power of Attorney.
My question is do I need to do anything to register/activate this or is it usable already?
It mentions that if we believe the donor (my Dad) is mentally incapable of managing his affairs then we have to apply to the Court of Protection but he isn't and am confused as to whether we need to do anything.
Any advice would be gratefully received!

You'd need to register an EPA if the donor loses mental capacity: https://www.gov.uk/enduring-power-attorney-duties/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney

JGB1955

I had the same with my father.  I was already using the EPOA when he lost capacity.  At that point I had to notify all of my father's grandchildren that I wished to register the EPOA.  Once that was done and approved I could continue to administer my father's accounts... but he couldn't.

Daniel54

Just to echo the input of others.I was able to manage my late mother's affairs under the EPA ,but once it was clear she was losing/had lost  capacity ,I consulted  with my sister who was joint attorney and  registered the EPA.It was a straight forward process and in practice, nothing changed apart from the fact that she could no longer instruct her bank etc.No problems with the  bank or her IFA.

MarkAdams

I have been going through a similar process with my parents. This is my understanding:
You can act as an attorney using the EPA straight away. But once the donor loses capacity you have to register it (with the Office of the Public Guardian).
Registration takes 8-10 weeks apparently (no idea if that's correct in current circumstances). This can present a significant time delay in dealing with the donors affairs that you might find a problem. Emphasis on the might. Legal, ethical and bureaucratic.
On a personal note - To avoid this time delay my parents created new style LPAs to replace their old EPAs a few years ago. LPAs are registered immediately without any need to make a declaration of loss of capacity. My parents still have capacity but struggle physically so I manage their finances using the LPA and when they lose capacity this will seamlessly continue (no registration required). Whilst it is true that they paid admin fees twice I am very glad that they did because it gives peace of mind that there won't be any rocks in the road if and when they lose capacity. Alzheimer's is bringing this eventuality very close. There are likely to be other things on my mind when loss of capacity happens and dealing with bureaucratic hiccups at a time of maximum emotional stress is not appealing.

saucer

MarkAdams said:

I have been going through a similar process with my parents. This is my understanding:
You can act as an attorney using the EPA straight away. But once the donor loses capacity you have to register it (with the Office of the Public Guardian).
Registration takes 8-10 weeks apparently (no idea if that's correct in current circumstances). This can present a significant time delay in dealing with the donors affairs that you might find a problem. Emphasis on the might. Legal, ethical and bureaucratic.

This is a good summary.  Lasting Powers can be extended beyond finance to other decisions, in particular regarding health and care.  Note that 'mental capacity' is not a black and white line that people cross, but is both time and decision specific.  However when it comes to something specific like a 'capacity to manage finances' this is likely to be something that is lost once somebody is into the moderate and severe stages of Alzhiemer's Disease 

Parking_Trouble

My wife has set up Lasting Power of Attorney (Finances only) for her 91 year old father. He still has mental capacity but would not be able to cope with financials affairs without help. He's very old school Italian and not really moved on from the 1960's.

He used to pay his bills in cash at the bank, having withdrawn the money from the ATM (or got my wife to use his card to get cash!). If we went shopping for him he would always pay us in cash. We rarely use cash these days.

He is no longer mobile and pretty much housebound. He does not have internet or email and thankfully doesn't trust anyone on the phone.

My wife has set up an LPA. It's a straightforward process. It's easy to set up codes so that companies can check she has the authorisation.
She has informed his bank (Barclays) about the LPA so she can now (legally) set up internet banking and has her own debit card to make payments on his behalf. It has been very easy to set up. No more messing about with cash, she can make electronic payments.
The other benefit is using the LPA to change his energy supplier and set up payment by monthly direct debit. Likewise the service charge for his flat that he used to pay annually, dealing with a recent insurance claim, etc. He is a leaseholder in a housing association block of flats so my wife can deal with ongoing issues with block maintenance bills and dodgy cladding on his behalf.

Other simple things like his mobile phone (the only technology he can cope with)  He was paying a stupid rate for his PAYG which we've now changed to £1 per week EE deal for 100 mins of calls, plus text and data he never uses. We can manage it all from the EE app on his behalf.

All done with his agreement but without him getting involved in stuff that he can't do himself. If his mental capacity goes everything is in place to keep his financial affairs.

My Mum and sister thought is might be worth setting up one for her but there's no point. She's 85, internet enabled, scam aware, good at complaining when necessary, all bills set up with Direct Debit, rents a lovely warden assisted council bungalow. If she shows any signs of losing capacity we'll reconsider.

elsien

@Parking_Trouble I would suggest it's always worth setting one up in advance, both for finance and health welfare.
I have seen people go from fit and healthy to in hospital having lost capacity overnight following a stroke or an accident or some other illness. If there is a dispute with the  medics with regards to level of treatment or returning home, who do you think your mum would want to be the one  making the decisions? It's £89 each well spent, if it's needed. 
A bit like insurance - sometimes you wish it was there when it's too late. 
I work people who lack capacity for various reasons, and it can cause no end of issues when bank accounts can't be accessed or tenancies need to be given up/houses need to be sold without a prolonged application to the CoP for a deputyship. 

SomeMadeUpName

Hi all

My MiL is in Spain, and recently widowed. Our perception from the UK was that she was handling her and her husbands finances well enough, she was a part-time bookkeeper before stopping work.  We may not have agreed with what she choose to spend her money on, but essentially that was none of our business so long as we believed she was making competent decisions (different strokes and all that). 

Being widowed knocked her badly and the doc put her on some form of happy pills to cope, they worked, but her clarity went out the window.  As a result we've had to help with a chunk of admin and this has revealed that some of that earlier decision making was maybe sub competent.

She's asked my wife to take a PoA in Spain to be ready to handle her affairs.  We're working on the assumption she bounces back a fair bit, gets off the pills and resumes greater normality (day to day and competence wise), but ultimately things over the longer term will only slip.

So, are you guys saying a UK LPA is only £89 to set up?  It sounds like it's fairly easy to instigate and then trigger and operate as needed?

My MiL still has UK assets and SP plus other small incomes.  We are trying to figure out if it is best to get a UK LPA and then have it attested in Spain, or do the opposite, or just get one in each country for completeness.  Anyone here know the best route?

Thx