Non responsive / missing pension trustee/s

lohr500

We have a problem with one of my wife's old company money purchase pension schemes.

To cut a long story short, she had a pension scheme with a company that long since went into administration. We were able to establish the current transfer value as we wanted to consolidate this pension along with others, into a new single pension platform.  The new provider initiated a transfer request and submitted this to the pension provider who manage the old scheme. In turn, they submitted the discharge papers to the trustee they have on file. After several months the signed discharge papers had not been returned so the old provider was unable to transfer the funds to the new.
The problem is that the sole remaining trustee they have on file claims not to be a trustee of the scheme. We established this by contacting the trustee directly to ask why the forms had not been signed and returned. This person claims they were simply involved in the winding up of the company as it went through the administration process and that they were never nominated as a trustee.
We have formally complained to the old provider who have investigated the issue and they still maintain that they need approval from the trustee/s to transfer the funds. They seem unable or unwilling to resolve the problem. 
We have now escalated to the Financial Ombudsman as there seems to be no way for my wife to access the funds in her pension scheme.

I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has hit the same roadblock with missing/absent/untraceable trustees and what the solution was to free up the funds. I am hoping the Financial Services Ombudsman will have the power to intervene, but it would be good to know what the outcome was for others in teh same boat.
 

Marcon

lohr500 said:

We have a problem with one of my wife's old company money purchase pension schemes.

To cut a long story short, she had a pension scheme with a company that long since went into administration. We were able to establish the current transfer value as we wanted to consolidate this pension along with others, into a new single pension platform.  The new provider initiated a transfer request and submitted this to the pension provider who manage the old scheme. In turn, they submitted the discharge papers to the trustee they have on file. After several months the signed discharge papers had not been returned so the old provider was unable to transfer the funds to the new.
The problem is that the sole remaining trustee they have on file claims not to be a trustee of the scheme. We established this by contacting the trustee directly to ask why the forms had not been signed and returned. This person claims they were simply involved in the winding up of the company as it went through the administration process and that they were never nominated as a trustee.
We have formally complained to the old provider who have investigated the issue and they still maintain that they need approval from the trustee/s to transfer the funds. They seem unable or unwilling to resolve the problem. 
We have now escalated to the Financial Ombudsman as there seems to be no way for my wife to access the funds in her pension scheme.

I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has hit the same roadblock with missing/absent/untraceable trustees and what the solution was to free up the funds. I am hoping the Financial Services Ombudsman will have the power to intervene, but it would be good to know what the outcome was for others in teh same boat.
 

How very annoying for you.

For free, impartial help start with TPAS: https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk. If necessary this can then escalate to the Pensions Ombudsman (who is probably the appropriate Ombudsman here, as opposed to FOS), who will have the necessary powers to help if a 'live' trustee can't be found.

Don't blame the provider; they can't act without trustee authority where a scheme is trust based.

dunstonh

We have formally complained to the old provider who have investigated the issue and they still maintain that they need approval from the trustee/s to transfer the funds. They seem unable or unwilling to resolve the problem. 

Is the old "provider" the administrator or is a third party company involved as administrator?   

With group/company schemes, the provider is just often an order taker from the administrators and doesn't get involved in administration beyond their bit.

We have now escalated to the Financial Ombudsman as there seems to be no way for my wife to access the funds in her pension scheme.

The FOS cannot review the complaint until a complaint has been made to the provider and rejected (or unresolved in a way you don't like).   If that has not happened, the FOS will just forward it onto the provider.   However, as Marcon says above, it's unlikely the FOS is the right ombudsman in this case as its not a retail pension   The pensions ombudsman is likely to be the right option.   It is unlikely the provider is doing anything wrong here.  So, pursuing them is not likely to lead anywhere.  You need the root cause sorted which is outside of the provider's control.

Albermarle

I had a very similar situation , although in my case the info about the Trustee was lost/wrong and they were never actually located . After more than  two years of back and forward with the pension company ( Scottish Widows) they eventually agreed to transfer the pension over to me personally, on the basis the trustee could not be located. 
If I remember correctly I had to sign some kind of waiver for SW in case the Trustee turned up .
From then on I started again to get annual updates ( pension was not on line ) but was not able to add to it .
Eventually I transferred it out with no problem. 

lohr500

Thanks for all the replies.
The old provider is an established Pension Scheme provider who appears to have sucked up several other pension provision companies along the way. My Wife's pension was originally with one of the pension companies absorbed into the current provider. They describe themselves as a "closed life insurance business".

We did raise a formal complaint with them and within the required 8 week window they provided their final response which basically said there is nothing they can do without trustee approval. It was them who suggested escalation to the FOS in their final reply. Hence the complaint we have now sent to the FOS.

I realise that the provider is doing nothing wrong, but I am surprised they have no responsibility to keep in contact with trustees to establish if their records are correct.  

Separately I have today requested they provide us with full details of all the trustees they have on file for the scheme. I understand they are obliged to do this.

I think we will now wait for a response from the FOS. If FOS advise us to take up the case with the POS then we will do so.

I pity anyone who is in this situation and who is on the point of retiring and needing access to their pension. We just want the funds transferring as the fund performance over the past 5 years has been very poor and is best invested elsewhere.

Albermarle

We did raise a formal complaint with them and within the required 8 week window they provided their final response which basically said there is nothing they can do without trustee approval.

This is what my first contacts at Scottish Widows said, but after escalating the complaint upwards and doing a lot of pushing , they eventually decided there was a way .

I have found the form I eventually had to sign . It was a Trustee Discharge Form based on the fact they could not be traced, but it looks like it was something raised for my case rather than a standard form.

It must be something that happens quite often , so not sure why there seems to be no standard procedure for dealing with it .

dunstonh

The old provider is an established Pension Scheme provider who appears to have sucked up several other pension provision companies along the way. My Wife's pension was originally with one of the pension companies absorbed into the current provider. They describe themselves as a "closed life insurance business".

That doesn't mean that the pension provider is the administrator though.   With retail individual pensions they would be.  With company/group schemes, often the employer appoints a professional administrator and just uses the pension provider to provide the statements and investments and do the transactional work.

We did raise a formal complaint with them and within the required 8 week window they provided their final response which basically said there is nothing they can do without trustee approval. It was them who suggested escalation to the FOS in their final reply. Hence the complaint we have now sent to the FOS.

It is not their suggestion to use the FOS.   It is a regulatory requirement with complaints to make you aware of your right to use the FOS.     Pensions are unusual in that there are two ombudsmen.  Broadly speaking, the FOS handle individual retail pensions and the POS handle occupational pensions but some schemes can fall under both (and sometimes the POS and the FOS give different outcomes on the same case).

TVAS

It is POS not FOS.
Also have you asked the insurance company what happens when a) trustees cannot be traced or b) they are dead. There must be a clause that the insurance company or member can stand in the stead of the trustee. 
This looks like it is a 100% insured product so if the provider say the value is x based on the value of the units within each fund there is no issue because money purchased insured funds are EARMARED to each member. This means each member has a separate pot. 
When I used to do admin, years ago when a member left they had the option to transfer it into an individual policy (internal transfer) where the member could sign the discharge form. The reason why we had this feature is to prevent this very occurrence as years later the trustees could have died, the company wound up etc. Ask if it is possible to go down this route without the signature of the trustees. 
The key point is that this has happened before and the provider should have a solution.

xylophone

The problem is that the sole remaining trustee they have on file claims not to be a trustee of the scheme.

Then why is he recorded as such on the records of the Administrator?

What would be the process if a Scheme Trustee wishes to stand down?

And supposing that he had been a Trustee but had died?

What would the Administrator have done then?

Surely there must be legal processes in place to cover the above circumstances?

lohr500

I have no idea why the person who is adamant that they are not a trustee, is named as such in the records. It baffles me and I suspect they are in reality a trustee but don't want anything to do with it. But I cannot prove or disprove this. Nor do I think it should be our responsibility to establish this.
We did ask the insurance company what happens in situations like this, but we keep going round in circles. They just say that they can only deal with the trustee/s that they have on file !! 
As per other comments, this can't be a unique situation and there must be a process to resolve it as Albermarle has proved.
I am hoping that the FOS (or the POS if the FOS advise that we should transfer the complaint to the POS) will intervene and put a boot up either the insurance company's proverbial or the trustee. The trustee holds a 75% shareholding in an accountancy practice, so presumably will not be comfortable with Ombudsmen asking lots of questions.

Thrugelmir

lohr500 said:

I have no idea why the person who is adamant that they are not a trustee, is named as such in the records. 

Perhaps they resigned when the company folded.