Change from NHS contract to local terms and conditions, how can I negotiate

kbar1234

Hello everyone,
I have been on a NHS contract for over 25years, the organisation I work for pulled away from the NHS around 5 years ago and formed a CIC, we were all tuped over on our existing T&C’s. Now the majority of staff are on the new organisations T&C’s.
As a result we haven’t had any pay rises in this time and at times it feels like we are discriminated against because we are on old contracts, employees on the new contracts have had a number of pay rises over the past few years from 1 - 2%. 
I have been offered the opportunity to transfer onto a new contract, keeping my NHS pension (which I don’t want to loose) but will loose holidays and sickness, these I am prepared to negotiate. 
If we would have stayed in the NHS my salary would be about £3,000 more than it is now and if I would of had the pay rises the rest of the organisation had I would be about £1,000 better off a year.
I have been told that I won’t get a pay raise, not even the 2% the rest of the organisation received because I’m still on the old contract and I have missed the opportunity.
Do anyone have any practical steps how to negotiate in a professional manner and put together a proposal. This is something I’m not very good at so I need to have a good case to move forwards. 
Thank you in advance.

moneysavinghero

Decide which contract you want to be on. If the answer is neither then start looking for employment elsewhere.

Savvy_Sue

If in a trade union, see if they will support your case. 

Marcon

kbar1234 said:

Hello everyone,
I have been on a NHS contract for over 25years, the organisation I work for pulled away from the NHS around 5 years ago and formed a CIC, we were all tuped over on our existing T&C’s. Now the majority of staff are on the new organisations T&C’s.
As a result we haven’t had any pay rises in this time and at times it feels like we are discriminated against because we are on old contracts, employees on the new contracts have had a number of pay rises over the past few years from 1 - 2%. 
I have been offered the opportunity to transfer onto a new contract, keeping my NHS pension (which I don’t want to loose) but will loose holidays and sickness, these I am prepared to negotiate. 
If we would have stayed in the NHS my salary would be about £3,000 more than it is now and if I would of had the pay rises the rest of the organisation had I would be about £1,000 better off a year.
I have been told that I won’t get a pay raise, not even the 2% the rest of the organisation received because I’m still on the old contract and I have missed the opportunity.
Do anyone have any practical steps how to negotiate in a professional manner and put together a proposal. This is something I’m not very good at so I need to have a good case to move forwards. 
Thank you in advance.

You have the massive benefit of your NHS pension (which gets even more valuable as you get older and have longer service), so changing employer and going on to a more normal pension arrangement (defined contribution) would really hit you financially.

You say that you are 'prepared to negotiate'. Is there any indication your employer is prepared to negotiate? What can you offer that nobody else can that would make you valuable enough to make them concede holiday and sickness pay? From what you've said, it sounds as if they are determined to get/keep everyone on the same contract, so there may not be any scope.

Manxman_in_exile

What do you mean by "I have been offered the opportunity to transfer onto a new contract, keeping my NHS pension... "?

Obviously(?) you can't lose any NHS pension entitlement you have already accrued simply by changing to a non-NHS employment contract (it's just "frozen" until you reach retirement age) but I'm a bit concerned by the way you have expressed the above that you may mistakenly believe that you can continue contributing to the NHS scheme?  Apologies if that is not what you mean but it's best to clarify what you think you've been told.

As Marcon suggests above, it could be a very costly move if you leave the NHS pension scheme and have to move to a defined contribution scheme.  I worked in the NHS for 25 years and many of my colleagues were "persuaded" to opt out of the scheme during the late 1980s and 1990s because they thought it would save them money.  I can assure you that all of them bitterly regret that decision to this day.

Out of interest, what sort of staff are you (I presume non-clinical)?  And are you certain your employment is wholly outside the NHS?

(And to show my own ignorance - because I never encountered this sort of situation when I was in the NHS - I'll ask my own really stupid question for someone else to answer.  I presume that although you retained your NHS T&Cs (including pension) when you transferred out of NHS employment, those T&Cs don't include entitlement to a NHS pay awards?.  I presume not but want to be sure).

74jax

kbar1234 said:

 
I have been offered the opportunity to transfer onto a new contract, keeping my NHS pension (which I don’t want to loose) but will loose holidays and sickness, these I am prepared to negotiate. 
Thank you in advance.

When you say 'offered the opportunity' does this mean you can decline?
Regarding your pension, what do you mean by 'keeping my nhs pension', keeping it and still continuing to contribute at the rate(s) currently? Are you sure?
Regarding holidays and sickness, what value is the 'worth' of these extra days in comparison to what you could lose with your pension? 

JamoLew

74jax said:

kbar1234 said:

 
I have been offered the opportunity to transfer onto a new contract, keeping my NHS pension (which I don’t want to loose) but will loose holidays and sickness, these I am prepared to negotiate. 
Thank you in advance.

When you say 'offered the opportunity' does this mean you can decline?
Regarding your pension, what do you mean by 'keeping my nhs pension', keeping it and still continuing to contribute at the rate(s) currently? Are you sure?
Regarding holidays and sickness, what value is the 'worth' of these extra days in comparison to what you could lose with your pension? 

OP really needs to get this correct.

You never actually lose your NHS pension, just the ability to continue paying into it. (plus it will be based on annual wages when you stopped paying in and NOT when you retire, which could have a considerable impact on the amount it pays out)

Not saying it won't/can't happen but I would be very surprised if you could pay into it when not under contract with the NHS

elsien

It is normal to either choose to stay on the old contract and forego any benefits accruing to colleagues on the new contract, or to change contract. If you stay, the benefits you forego include pay increases if your TUPE salary is higher than colleagues on the new contract, additional holidays etc. It is not discrimination because you can choose to transfer to the new contract at the point at which for you moving is worth losing out on the better bits of the old contract. It is also usual for cost of living increases to kick in again at the point at which the salaries on the old and new contracts line up. Have you asked that specific question?

You say your colleagues are getting pay rises and you aren't which would tend to suggest you are on a higher rate of pay than them at the moment. So you potentially have higher pay, better sick pay and holidays but you are the one complaining about being discriminated against? 

What you seem to want to do is to cherry pick the best bits for each, which is not going to happen unless you are someone with unique skills that they are going to have difficulty getting elsewhere. 

There's little point referencing what may have happened had you stayed in the NHS, because you didn't. I've been TUPEd myself, and also had colleagues on much higher pay than me because they also TUPE'd into my organisation. Such is life. 

dcfc67

You never mentioned if you are in a union.
i presume you work in support services (admin, facilities etc)
Have you got a freedom to speak up guardian at your Trust.

Has it ever been discussed at board level