Hmrc Self Assessment below small profits threshold NIC2 ?

Fast_Muchly

Hi 
     The wife has the past year been self employed selling plants she has made a turnover of £10'124 and expenses were £4749  so a profit of around £5'500k  , which is below the small profits threshold, so no tax to pay or class 4 contributions .But i have told her to pay her Class 2 nic as she is only 7 years short of the full amount needed . The thing is while doing her return today we ticked the part where we wanted to pay voluntarily but it wouldnt accept it as it said zero in the form above ,so we were forced into saying no to be able to complete and proceed her tax return .
We do want to pay the £3.05 x 52 weeks so she gets a full year ? . 
What im confused by is can she still do this ?, or does she have to pay a higher rate voluntarily than the above figure as she didnt reach the required profit of roughly £6500 to be above the small profits margin . 
Thanks 
Alan 

[Deleted User]

Fast_Muchly said:

Hi 
     The wife has the past year been self employed selling plants she has made a turnover of £10'124 and expenses were £4749  so a profit of around £5'500k  , which is below the small profits threshold, so no tax to pay or class 4 contributions .But i have told her to pay her Class 2 nic as she is only 7 years short of the full amount needed . The thing is while doing her return today we ticked the part where we wanted to pay voluntarily but it wouldnt accept it as it said zero in the form above ,so we were forced into saying no to be able to complete and proceed her tax return .
We do want to pay the £3.05 x 52 weeks so she gets a full year ? . 
What im confused by is can she still do this ?, or does she have to pay a higher rate voluntarily than the above figure as she didnt reach the required profit of roughly £6500 to be above the small profits margin . 
Thanks 
Alan 

She can - see box 36 on the paper version of the return below.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/974065/sa103s-2021.pdf

unholyangel

Has she registered as self employed? I seem to recall there was an issue with class 2 when it changed a few years back, due to it taking information from another system (national insurance maybe? Memory is very hazy). 

You may find she has registered for self assessment but not self employment. 

Jeremy535897

unholyangel said:

Has she registered as self employed? I seem to recall there was an issue with class 2 when it changed a few years back, due to it taking information from another system (national insurance maybe? Memory is very hazy). 

You may find she has registered for self assessment but not self employment. 

Yes, this is most likely to be the problem. She needs to complete a CWF1.

See https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/self-employment/how-do-i-register-tax-and-national-insurance#toc-i-am-already-registered-for-self-assessment-and-starting-self-employment-what-do-i-do-

[Deleted User]

Jeremy535897 said:

unholyangel said:

Has she registered as self employed? I seem to recall there was an issue with class 2 when it changed a few years back, due to it taking information from another system (national insurance maybe? Memory is very hazy). 

You may find she has registered for self assessment but not self employment. 

Yes, this is most likely to be the problem. She needs to complete a CWF1.

See https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/self-employment/how-do-i-register-tax-and-national-insurance#toc-i-am-already-registered-for-self-assessment-and-starting-self-employment-what-do-i-do-

It may well be but the op has indicated that profits are less than 6515.  The box that I mentioned would still have to be ticked or no Class 2 liability will be calculated.

Jeremy535897

[Deleted User] said:

Jeremy535897 said:

unholyangel said:

Has she registered as self employed? I seem to recall there was an issue with class 2 when it changed a few years back, due to it taking information from another system (national insurance maybe? Memory is very hazy). 

You may find she has registered for self assessment but not self employment. 

Yes, this is most likely to be the problem. She needs to complete a CWF1.

See https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/self-employment/how-do-i-register-tax-and-national-insurance#toc-i-am-already-registered-for-self-assessment-and-starting-self-employment-what-do-i-do-

It may well be but the op has indicated that profits are less than 6515.  The box that I mentioned would still have to be ticked or no Class 2 liability will be calculated.

The problem is that if you are not registered as self employed, even if you tick the box, it won't help. Some commercial software just removes the tick. I don't know if the HMRC software does.

Fast_Muchly

Hi 
    Thanks for the help .
     She was originally self employed around 8 years ago . But then suffered with ill health on and off and had to stop work but when back and was employed on and off with various agencies and some part time work at a garden center . Since last year she has been self employed , i have filled in that form after i have filled in and filed her tax return .So im hoping that once hmrc catches up with our return and registering that form we can then pay her NIC2 at a later date at £3.05 a week . What do people think wil lthat be possible . To file her return i had no option but to tick NO to doesnt want to voluntarily pay NIC2 , i tried every which way to not do this but it wouldnt let me . 

Thanks 

Alan .