Grandads Will-Should he include Money for an 'Unborn/INVISIBLE grandchild' in the Will?Advise needed

Danny_G

Grandads Will -Should he include an 'Unborn/ INVISIBLE grandchild' in the Will? Advise needed



Grandad is a Widow and has 3 adult children who are all above 18. 

2 of his children are Married and have 2 kids each, and one of these children is single and has no children.

Son 1 = Married and 2 kids

Son 2 = Married and 2 kids

Son 3 = Not married, no kids yet  (but in this whole question, he might have one child years after his dad dies)

So the Grandad has 3 kids, and 4 grandkids from 2 of his children (each son has 2 kids each)

Now when he is writing his will the grandad wants to include some money in the will for his grandkids.
For simplicity sake, lets say he wants to leave them £1000 each, then that is £4000 of his wealth given to his 4 grandkids (1 grandkid gets £1000)

This £4000 will be released to the grandkids when they are 18 years.

Now the 3rd son who has no children, has no kids, but let's say 1-5 years after the grandad dies this single son has a relationship and possibly gets married and has 1 child, then there will be another child in this equation, making 5 grandkids.

At this stage lets call this 5th grandson an 'unborn' / invisible grandchild.

Can this son say to his alive dad, for him in his will to include some money aside for incase he has children one day?

or after he passes away, and has children can he say to his 2 siblings (the other 2 boys)  that "I need a share of that £4000" as NOW our dad has some another grandchild.


Note: this is only if the 3rd son has a child a few years 'after' the grandad (his dad)  dies.

Here are questions

Should this grandparent include an 'extra' share of money in the will saved for the eventuality that the lone son might have children?

or because he has no children while the dad is alive, then he cannot claim for any as there are currently now grandkid born yet.

Any other thing/suggestion you can advise?

Have you or anybody you know had this similar experience?

How did you approach it? What was included on the will? did anybody get left out?

Robin9

Same situation as my MIL faced.   How many grandchildren or even great grandchildren at the time of her death couldn't be predicted.

She simply provided for the 3 children and trusted them to give to their own children. Which is what they did - they completed an appropriate Deed of Variation

Danny_G

Robin9 said:

Same situation as my MIL faced.   How many grandchildren or even great grandchildren at the time of her death couldn't be predicted.

She simply provided for the 3 children and trusted them to give to their own children. Which is what they did - they completed an appropriate Deed of Variation

cheers.

MIL ?

blue.peter

MIL = mother-in-law, I assume.

The solution suggested above doesn't cover the situation described, i.e., children born years after the testator's death.

It's common enough to make provision for children "en ventre sa mere" (i.e., in the womb) at the date of a person's death. It would therefore not be unreasonable for the testator to make provision for a child already conceived, but not yet born, at the date of his/her death. (Having said that, I think that this is more common for the testator's own children than for remoter issue.)

I think that it's pretty unusual to make provision for children not even conceived at the date of death. This brings in its train other issues. For how many such children should provision be made? What if son 3 eventually has two or three such children after his father's death, but only one inherits? What time limit, if any, should be set for the birth of the inheriting grandchild? And what happens to the legacy if no such child is born within the time limit? What happens if there is no time limit set but no inheritor is born before son 3's death? Who holds the money in trust for the putative child? What if son 1 or son 2 has further children? Should allowance be made for them, too? If so, for how many? It's a nightmare.

This is definitely a question that needs careful thought and discussion with a solicitor specialising in wills and probate.

IvanOpinion

Could it be worded so that the grandparent leaves a fixed amount to be split equally between all grand children at the time the first child reaches the age of majority?

blue.peter

IvanOpinion said:

Could it be worded so that the grandparent leaves a fixed amount to be split equally between all grand children at the time the first child reaches the age of majority?

That's certainly one way of doing it (though the exact phrasing might need tightening up a little). The downside of this is that the money might need to be held on trust for a long period. And presumably the testator won't want a child of, say, 10, to inherit immediately. What happens to such a child's share if they die before reaching whatever age is specified for receiving it?

Pretty much anything is possible as long as it's properly defined. The important thing is to think through all of the possibile relevant situations, to set out what happens in each circumstance, and not to leave holes. I found it helpful to draw a flow chart when I wrote my will (whichj is now badly out of date, but that's another story).

Grumpy_chap

It is not uncommon for a will to be written to leave an amount to all grandchildren at the time of death, even though they may not all have been born at the tine of the will being written.

To try to take into account future grandchildren born some time after death is difficult and complicated:

• Assume the OP and siblings are currently in the 20-30 age range
• Sibling 1 has 2 children
• Sibling 2 has 2 children
• Sibling 3 has no children
• Any sibling could have more children before Grandad passes away

Now, the future children that could come into the picture after Grandad's death:

• Michael Douglas was knocking on 60 yo when he had children with Catherine Zeta-Jones.  Even if the siblings are all 30 yo now, that could mean at least 30 years before the estate can be finalised.
• What about children by adoption?
• What about children by a second marriage?
• What about children of a second-partner introduced into the family?

This would mean that Grandad's estate can never be fully finalised...

elsien

Child 3 probably needs stop focussing quite so much on children they may or may not have. 

Too many variables, too complicated, too much potential for strife for what may be a comparatively small amount of money given grumpy-chap’s examples above.

Are there some other family dynamics going in here between the siblings? 

My parent has done similar to a previous poster. All money left equally between the children and allowing the individual parents to decide what (if anything) goes to grandchildren  out of their own personal share. One child has 3 children, one has two, one has none, grandchildren are imminent so it was getting complicated otherwise.  

AnotherJoe

I think KISS applies here, attempting to leave money to kids not born at time of your death,and certainly some years later , then pushes back and complicates probate, perhaps considerably.

 

blue.peter

AnotherJoe said:

I think KISS applies here,

Absolutely. The more complicated a will, the more likely it is to have holes in it, and the more likely it is to fail for lack of certainty. And this is a very complicated idea, even though it seems simple at first glance.

elsien

What does KISS stand for?
I have tried to Google but just got lots of YouTube videos on snogging.