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Searching for dad's will cont...

Thank you all for your kind suggestions re tracing my late father's will (see my previous thread). 
His wife (who will not answer my calls) definitely stated they had a mirror will when he died. 
I've looked at the links some of you have kindly given me, Gov website, advanced searches etc but sadly I've hit a dead end (pardon the pun).
All my searches state that, despite his wife saying they both had mirror wills, that no one with my father's name or dod is registered... still nothing?? which I find odd.
I don't understand how all this works.
Surely, at the very least his death would show on the. Gov site?
Sorry if this sounds a silly question.
Btw I'm not out for any payout, this is only about me hoping he loved me enough to think about me.
Thus far I only have a Gillette razor of his. He was my father of 44 years, and we were never estranged, so I'm finding it hard to gain closure. He died Dec 2019.
Thank you in advance. 
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  • TigsteroonieTigsteroonie Forumite
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    Your father and stepmother may have had mirror Wills as she said; these could detail that everything goes to the other person (nothing to any children etc) and - with joint property not being included for estate purposes - there may not have been any need to go for Probate. As a result, you may never get to see his Will if she won't share it. You have no rights to see it.

    As I think somebody else has warned, she may now change her will so that it is no longer the 'mirror' but instead leaves everything directly to her own children. Again, if you're not mentioned, you wouldn't have a right to see her will when she eventually dies; although you could wait and see what her Probate says, it might be even more of a kick in the teeth.

    Your father's death would only show on the Probate gov.uk site if probate / letters of administration of intestacy was sought. It's not a register of deaths, it's a register of probate. 
    :heartpuls Mrs Marleyboy :heartpuls

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  • 74jax74jax Forumite
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    Could you try ringing round the solicitors in the area to see if they did the Will? 
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  • PennylanePennylane Forumite
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    74jax said:
    Could you try ringing round the solicitors in the area to see if they did the Will? 
    I don’t think solicitors will communicate with you unless you are an executor or their client. 
  • 74jax74jax Forumite
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    Pennylane said:
    74jax said:
    Could you try ringing round the solicitors in the area to see if they did the Will? 
    I don’t think solicitors will communicate with you unless you are an executor or their client. 
    It would depend how the op worded maybe.... 
    I know when my neighbour's partner died, she knew he had a Will but no idea where. 
    In the end I called loads of solicitors for her, finally one called back saying the Will had been released to the correct person.....  We weren't told who, but it turned out his mother had collected it who then gave it to my friend.
    I guess there will be instances where you need to find the Will, and have no idea who the Executors are until you get the Will. Executors don't need to know they are one, so wouldn't know to contact a solicitor for the Will (if that makes sence 🙈) . 
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
  • FlugelhornFlugelhorn Forumite
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    Natalief said:

    Surely, at the very least his death would show on the. Gov site?

    Are you saying his death was not registered?
  • GrumpelstiltskinGrumpelstiltskin Forumite
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    Deaths are registered here.

    General Register Office - Online Ordering Service - Login (gro.gov.uk)

    That is different to the wills and probate site.
    If you go down to the woods today you better not go alone.
  • RASRAS Forumite
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    Natalief

    Please can you confirm in which country you live as Scottish law is very different from English and you won't even find the death certificate in the same place? 

    We had a not dissimilar situation with the second wife advising at our father's will left the house to her for her life time and then it transferred to his children.

    Only after she left everything to someone else and no trace was found of any probate regarding his death did it transpire that the house was actually a joint tenancy and she had become the sole tenant and could do what she liked with it and everything else. And his will had never included any bequest to any of his children.

    It sadly not unusual based on some cases seen here. Not least as one bank had a nasty habit of advising wills that left different assets to different family members. With a POA it was awfully easy for the second spouse to simply transfer value from assets bequeathed to step-children into joint accounts and then into personal accounts. 

    You should at least be able to get a copy of his death certificate if you look in the right place. You could download the deeds from the land registry to check whether it was a joint tenancy, but it is possible that step-mum has re-registered the property even if that is not actually necessary.
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  • NataliefNatalief Forumite
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    RAS said:
    Natalief

    Please can you confirm in which country you live as Scottish law is very different from English and you won't even find the death certificate in the same place? 

    We had a not dissimilar situation with the second wife advising at our father's will left the house to her for her life time and then it transferred to his children.

    Only after she left everything to someone else and no trace was found of any probate regarding his death did it transpire that the house was actually a joint tenancy and she had become the sole tenant and could do what she liked with it and everything else. And his will had never included any bequest to any of his children.

    It sadly not unusual based on some cases seen here. Not least as one bank had a nasty habit of advising wills that left different assets to different family members. With a POA it was awfully easy for the second spouse to simply transfer value from assets bequeathed to step-children into joint accounts and then into personal accounts. 

    You should at least be able to get a copy of his death certificate if you look in the right place. You could download the deeds from the land registry to check whether it was a joint tenancy, but it is possible that step-mum has re-registered the property even if that is not actually necessary.
    Thank you for that informative response.
    Thank you all. 
    They resided in the North of England, the irony is most of my mother's family are Scottish, one who is a lawyer, and could have advised, but doesn't know about our case as it's English law. 
    I guess somewhere deep in my heart, as they were married, and has disconnected from my brother's and I very quickly after his death, I am of the opinion that she will transfer everything over to her 2 children and grandchildren, and we will be a distant memory when she passes (if we're not already!). 
    It's so sad, because we were close to our dad, he married this lady 10 years his junior 20 years ago. My dad was just 70 when he passed.
    She successfully managed to put a logistical divide between us-moving 200 miles away to nearer her home and kids. I partially blame her, but my dad was weak.
    When they invested in their new life up north, it was because he sold our family home of 25 years and got a mortgage with her (she'd never had a mortgage).
    The house sold for £375k back then. 
    Both of her children are wealthy, I on the other hand, have just been a single mum and nurse who has never got myself on the property ladder. I'm no more than that. 
    But I genuinely mean this when I say, it's not about the money, it's about what is right, and that he thought of us. 
    I wouldn't mind at all if all 5 of us children (her 2 and dad's 3) all had equal measure. 
    But to think we're not entitled to one thing of our father's, and we've been cut off, despite us all being good people, and never hurt or been estranged from him, really hurts my heart. 
    If I could have him back in a flash I would, and forsake everything I would. 
    But he had 3 grand children too, and I feel a sense of injustice for them too, knowing, quite likely her 4 grandchildren/2 children will be allowed to have whatever they want of our father's. 
    It hurts. It really does. Xx



  • Keep_pedallingKeep_pedalling Forumite
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    Unfortunately it was down to your father to avoid this situation. If he wanted to protect your inheritance he really should put his share of the house he shared with his wife into a life interest trust so it would come you you on her death, or when she no longer needed it. He should also have made you and your sibling his executors.

    Alternatively if his will left everything to his wife he should have told you, rather than leave you in the dark.
  • Manxman_in_exileManxman_in_exile Forumite
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    Regarding mirror wills - similar thing happened in my family.  My brother and his wife had mirror wills.  A couple of years after she died he remarried and left everything to his new wife, disinheriting his own children.

    Unfortunately it happens a lot - and it usually happens when a father remarries after divorce or after his first wife has died.  Sad to say, it's perfectly lawful and there's nothing you can do about it - unless it happened in Scotland.

    (Going back to your other thread, are you sure your mother only came out of the divorce with £1000?  Didn't she get any share at all in the married property that you say above sold for £375k?

    I find that even more surprising if one of your mother's relatives is a lawyer.  They may only be able to practise in Scotland but I would have thought your mother could still have got generally applicable advice from them to safeguard her position.)



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