Tennis Club charged full price throughout lockdown

sand_hun

I asked my tennis club if, given the situation with Covid-19 and the courts being closed it might be possible to either have a partial refund or have my membership term extended to make up for the time when it hasn't been possible to play. They replied saying "The committee has yet to make a decision with regards to the membership fees, whether to apply a discount or extend the renewals."

When I chased this up they informed me that no other members have raised any issues, therefore they have opted not to offer any discounts/membership extensions.

In their reply, they stated that:

"Being a private members club and not a business, we relay[sic] on our members to support their club even during difficult times".

I know for a fact they had lots of new members after the pandemic struck.

I'm also a member of a local gym and during the time when we weren't permitted to use their services (due to Covid) they didn't charge us membership fees at all.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

Undervalued

sand_hun said:

I asked my tennis club if, given the situation with Covid-19 and the courts being closed it might be possible to either have a partial refund or have my membership term extended to make up for the time when it hasn't been possible to play. They replied saying "The committee has yet to make a decision with regards to the membership fees, whether to apply a discount or extend the renewals."

When I chased this up they informed me that no other members have raised any issues, therefore they have opted not to offer any discounts/membership extensions.

In their reply, they stated that:

"Being a private members club and not a business, we relay[sic] on our members to support their club even during difficult times".

I know for a fact they had lots of new members after the pandemic struck.

I'm also a member of a local gym and during the time when we weren't permitted to use their services (due to Covid) they didn't charge us membership fees at all.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

That is the key. You, as a member, own the club. You take the risks along with the other members.

If it were a commercial business where the owners took the profits, like many gyms and some golf "clubs", then yes would have a valid argument. But it seems it is not.

However I assume it is a company limited by guarantee (i.e not for profit) then your only entitlement is probably the sum of one pound if it were to be wound up!

You, as members, elect a committee to run the club on your behalf. There will be provision within the rules (or if not the Companies Act defaults apply) by which members can call an extraordinary general meeting and oust the committee if a majority of you don't like what they are doing.

I am a member to two similar clubs (not tennis) and in their cases the vast majority of their costs (rent, site maintenance etc) have continued even when they can't operate due to the lockdowns. If, in your case, it is obvious that the club's costs have actually dropped significantly then they may be an argument for a partial rebate. However the majority of the members would have to agree with you to force any action if the committee don't share your view.

As I have said in similar threads relating to golf, if the course (courts in your case) were covered with snow for three weeks in a harsh winter would you expect three weeks subs back?

sand_hun

Undervalued said:

As I have said in similar threads relating to golf, if the course (courts in your case) were covered with snow for three weeks in a harsh winter would you expect three weeks subs back?

Hello. If the courts were covered in snow and I was unable to play for 3 weeks I would not expect any compensation for that, due to the fact I would still be able to play in many of the remaining weeks of the year

However, due to the pandemic I've only been able to play a handful of times, despite paying the full annual fee - which will shortly be up for renewal. As mentioned previously, they had a huge influx of members in the last 12 months. The income from those fees would more than offset any ongoing maintenance costs. The clubhouse itself is little more than a glorified shed within a private estate.

MalMonroe

This sentence "Being a private members club and not a business, we relay[sic] on our members to support their club even during difficult times" - is a bit of a slap in the face. What they're actually saying is that you are going to lose your money.

And when they say this - "no other members have raised any issues, therefore they have opted not to offer any discounts/membership extensions". They have to be lying! Surely other people won't want to pay for a facility they have not been able to use through no fault of their own. I know it's not the club's fault either but these circumstances are not the norm.

I'd definitely try to get some of my money back, or an extension of membership. How dare they keep it when the club has not been available to members? What have they been doing with the money collected if the club has not been open?

If you know any other members you could perhaps contact them and put pressure on the committee. There obviously aren't any proper terms and conditions of membership, or they'd have sorted this all out when you first enquired.  It really is not on.

MalMonroe

Mickey666 said:

sand_hun said:

Undervalued said:

As I have said in similar threads relating to golf, if the course (courts in your case) were covered with snow for three weeks in a harsh winter would you expect three weeks subs back?

Hello. If the courts were covered in snow and I was unable to play for 3 weeks I would not expect any compensation for that, due to the fact I would still be able to play in many of the remaining weeks of the year

However, due to the pandemic I've only been able to play a handful of times, despite paying the full annual fee - which will shortly be up for renewal. As mentioned previously, they had a huge influx of members in the last 12 months. The income from those fees would more than offset any ongoing maintenance costs. The clubhouse itself is little more than a glorified shed within a private estate.

Seems like you've done as much as you can by asking the club about a subs reduction.   The only other thing you can do to apply pressure to the club is resign your membership, but with a "huge influx of members" it seems unlikely they'll care.
You basically have no influence at all.

That's a bit of a defeatist attitude. I'd at least have a go at getting something out of them when I'd paid my hard-earned cash for nothing.

sand_hun

MalMonroe said:

And when they say this - "no other members have raised any issues, therefore they have opted not to offer any discounts/membership extensions". They have to be lying! Surely other people won't want to pay for a facility they have not been able to use through no fault of their own. I know it's not the club's fault either but these circumstances are not the norm.

I'd definitely try to get some of my money back, or an extension of membership. How dare they keep it when the club has not been available to members? What have they been doing with the money collected if the club has not been open?

If you know any other members you could perhaps contact them and put pressure on the committee. There obviously aren't any proper terms and conditions of membership, or they'd have sorted this all out when you first enquired.  It really is not on.

That's what I thought, how could I know if other members have raised the issue or not?

Unfortunately I don't really know many other members since I'm effectively new to the club!

However, I have an update - they have now replied to my e-mail offering a 20% discount as a new member.

Undervalued

sand_hun said:

MalMonroe said:

And when they say this - "no other members have raised any issues, therefore they have opted not to offer any discounts/membership extensions". They have to be lying! Surely other people won't want to pay for a facility they have not been able to use through no fault of their own. I know it's not the club's fault either but these circumstances are not the norm.

I'd definitely try to get some of my money back, or an extension of membership. How dare they keep it when the club has not been available to members? What have they been doing with the money collected if the club has not been open?

If you know any other members you could perhaps contact them and put pressure on the committee. There obviously aren't any proper terms and conditions of membership, or they'd have sorted this all out when you first enquired.  It really is not on.

That's what I thought, how could I know if other members have raised the issue or not?

Unfortunately I don't really know many other members since I'm effectively new to the club!

However, I have an update - they have now replied to my e-mail offering a 20% discount as a new member.

Ultimately, as I said earlier, it is as much your club as it is any other member's, including the committee. So it is not really "me and them".

The committee is appointed by the members to run the club on their behalf. If a majority are unhappy with the decisions the committee make, they can elect a different committee in the future or even force a meeting and turf the current lot out.

Realistically how much (if at all) will the club's expenditure have fallen during the lockdowns? Or will other sources of income have dried up whilst the expenditure largely continues? You mention new members? What was the incentive for them to join when play was not allowed.

Only when you get to see the accounts for the last year (presumably at the next AGM) will you get a proper picture of what has been happening.

If you are content with the 20% discount then I think you need to see how it goes longer term.

pjcox2005

sand_hun said:

Undervalued said:

As I have said in similar threads relating to golf, if the course (courts in your case) were covered with snow for three weeks in a harsh winter would you expect three weeks subs back?

Hello. If the courts were covered in snow and I was unable to play for 3 weeks I would not expect any compensation for that, due to the fact I would still be able to play in many of the remaining weeks of the year

However, due to the pandemic I've only been able to play a handful of times, despite paying the full annual fee - which will shortly be up for renewal. As mentioned previously, they had a huge influx of members in the last 12 months. The income from those fees would more than offset any ongoing maintenance costs. The clubhouse itself is little more than a glorified shed within a private estate.

Doesn't fully make sense, you're saying they had an influx of members in the last 12 months which would help cover costs, but in the same thread you're asking for refunds to be issued due to Covid. If those people are going to get refunds then they won't be supporting the club unless you're suggesting only you get the discount.

As above, are you happy for the club to collapse if they don't charge for the periods where covid has stopped play being possible. That's personal, I don't always feel like it's my duty to support a golf club when I see it as a service being purchased but I'd probably think different if I was a long term member with a lot of friends up there.

sand_hun

Undervalued said:

 You mention new members? What was the incentive for them to join when play was not allowed.

It is my understanding they joined during a period within the last 12 months when play was allowed (maybe March / April)? I joined in the summer, managed to play a few games in August then again in October.

sand_hun

pjcox2005 said:

Doesn't fully make sense, you're saying they had an influx of members in the last 12 months which would help cover costs, but in the same thread you're asking for refunds to be issued due to Covid. If those people are going to get refunds then they won't be supporting the club unless you're suggesting only you get the discount.

As above, are you happy for the club to collapse if they don't charge for the periods where covid has stopped play being possible. That's personal, I don't always feel like it's my duty to support a golf club when I see it as a service being purchased but I'd probably think different if I was a long term member with a lot of friends up there.

They had an influx of new members in 2020 during months where play was permitted.

Am I happy for the club to collapse? Given the high membership numbers, there's very little chance of that occurring. Plus the fact they're now willing to offer 20% off indicates there is some leeway.

Undervalued

pjcox2005 said:

sand_hun said:

Undervalued said:

As I have said in similar threads relating to golf, if the course (courts in your case) were covered with snow for three weeks in a harsh winter would you expect three weeks subs back?

Hello. If the courts were covered in snow and I was unable to play for 3 weeks I would not expect any compensation for that, due to the fact I would still be able to play in many of the remaining weeks of the year

However, due to the pandemic I've only been able to play a handful of times, despite paying the full annual fee - which will shortly be up for renewal. As mentioned previously, they had a huge influx of members in the last 12 months. The income from those fees would more than offset any ongoing maintenance costs. The clubhouse itself is little more than a glorified shed within a private estate.

Doesn't fully make sense, you're saying they had an influx of members in the last 12 months which would help cover costs, but in the same thread you're asking for refunds to be issued due to Covid. If those people are going to get refunds then they won't be supporting the club unless you're suggesting only you get the discount.

As above, are you happy for the club to collapse if they don't charge for the periods where covid has stopped play being possible. That's personal, I don't always feel like it's my duty to support a golf club when I see it as a service being purchased but I'd probably think different if I was a long term member with a lot of friends up there.

If this were a commercial profit making organisation like many gyms and some golf "clubs" then I would agree with you. However as I understand it this is a club in the truer sense of the word. Often such organisations lack significant cash reserves.

Worse can be a situation where a handful of well heeled members bankroll the club via long term loans that are generally repayable on demand. I used to be on the committee of a club like that and effectively our hands were tied. Those few members could basically dictate what we could and couldn't do just by implying (or threatening) to call in their loans. They had no formal standing over and above any other member but......

As I said earlier the OP needs to fully understand how the club operates and decide how much they want to play tennis there before proceeding. If they have been offered a 20% rebate I would have though that was a reasonable compromise.