Estate is well below IHT threshold but I'm being steered toward IHT400 insted of IHT205

pea60s52w

It will do in some cases. Grey areas abound.

If a phone has an unlock code (accessible from another device, or maybe written down in a password book - this applies to Apple or Android phones) it can be possible to unlock without resorting to hacking methods. Also, it's not illegal to access a password book that the deceased person's locked in a safe and electronic equivalents do exist - I've got a secure password vault set up just in case I get run over by a bus and there is an established process for the executor or next of kin to legitimately access that vault.

Any attempt to impersonate the device's owner (especially from inside apps) would be walking into a legal minefield so I wouldn't attempt to read, much less use, the passwords to get into apps.

But getting the list of installed apps on the device isn't so much of an issue, because the name of the app isn't personal data. It's reasonable to send a message to a company's customer services explaining that you're administering an estate and you believe (but cannot be certain) that the deceased had an account with them. Simple example: if the deceased had home, contents and car insurance but you don't know which company to contact because it's all paperless, do they have an insurance provider's app on their phone?

getmore4less

It is customary and standard practice to do enquiries to establish the assets and debts of a deceased and this can be done before probate/LOA.
the equiries can extend to searching a device contents.

When there is a will with named executors the powers come from the will,  a grant just confirms that the court has done the due diligence.

Accessing on line to identify there is the possibility of an asset or debt that needs to be investigated can then be followed up in writing.

I think you are over thinking the access issues no one really cares as long as you act reasonably as executor you are acting as that person., 
Even going through any emails and social media accounts to see if there is anyone to notify is reasonable.


Good idea to do the IHT forms as a paper exercise  before going to the online versions get all the ducks in a row first
Read all the supporting pages.
IHT400 set is not that bad and quite useful to go through as it covers a lot more detail and can raise questions that need research  even if you end up back on IHT205.

pea60s52w

Thanks. I'm a lot more confident about it now, and I'm too hung up on things like "does this sum count as a gift without benefit, or a  GROB, or a bill payment?" 

pea60s52w

Hi

I'm still flummoxed by the IHT403 and gifts. Even after reading dozens of threads on it and the official guidelines I still can't work out what needs to go where, the guidance is just wordwang and it doesn't seem relatable to the evidence at hand.

Some of the firms I've contacted are citing GDPR to obfuscate actions on paperless accounts. Most have provided limited info after I showed them a death certificate, but some literally won't tell me anything without me sending them an award of probate and an indemnification. 

There are some shares mentioned in a tax letter from 2016 for s firm that's changed hands several times since, but the last contact said... "Get probate, then we'll talk to you". Are they listed shares? Who ruddy knows. I've tried to find out, and it's like swimming through treacle.

I have the account numbers and balances on date of death for bank accounts, but no statements at all. Get probate, then we'll tell you.

The will beneficiaries (lineal descendants) can show me their statements, which helps.

One beneficiary paid rent while living in the deceased's home but the money was simply banked, and handed back to them when they moved out (as the deceased was selling that house). The deceased even explained that sum in a letter. Gift or not a gift? Where does it go?

The deceased sold the house to downsize and moved in with a lineal descendant + carer,  paying rent from their pension income. How should the rent be written up?

The deceased also sent additional money to the beneficiary / carer out of the sale proceeds to compensate for home improvements related to moving in, like a downstairs wet room. Gift, GRoB or what?

They also reimbursed the carer for things like white goods replacement - carer paid for an item on credit card, deceased paid carer the money to clear that amount off the card. Capex, Gift, GRoB or something else?

Gaah!

Keep_pedalling

Returning the rent money is definitely a gift, paying for adaptions to allow them to live with the relative not a gift, paying for white goods for the home they were sharing could be either. If they were also paying full market rent then I would say it was a gift, if not then I would say it was a contribution to living costs so not a gift. 

For the moment I would not be to concerned about this, fill in the forms with the information you know, amendments can be made if you find substantial differences once you have probate. To be on the safe side do not distribute the estate until you are happy that you have IHT covered.

Which company shares have you found a tax statement from? If he still held them when he died it should not be to difficult to value them as the statement should give the number of shares held.

pea60s52w

Cheers.

Scottish Widows (strategic growth share class . Letters were addressed to the deceased but the references on the letters match the names of the surviving lineal descendants as named in the will.

Returning the rent money - is that still a gift if the letter also itemises additional expenditure by the beneficiary towards the upkeep of the property that is now being reimbursed?

Example: £xxx given to <beneficiary> reflects £yyy paid by <beneficiary> in rent which was banked, and £zzz from the proceeds of the sale; of the latter amount £abc is in lieu of <beneficiary> paying for home improvements at the sold property on top of paying rent while living there.