St James Place -drawdown fund

atush

gm0 said:

This place is a nest of DIYers and IFAs - the FAs tend to keep their heads down.  They always get a kicking and these cheeky chappies more than most because they are out there chasing what used to be called the mass affluent rather than the higher net worth + private banking crowd.  The haut couture wealth managers come up less on here and thus don't get the same regular kicking. 

Various people have tried this wealth management for the masses over the years.  I dimly recall an expensive largely failed (profitability vs investment cost) effort by Aviva/NU (with their stapled together from mergers product range and infrastructure - arguably the Microsoft of UK financial services product management - lots of random overlapping stuff - somewhat stapled. Traditional retail FS banking and similar outfits always find this difficult.  To make it profitable at low net worth and large scale - they have to make you self-serve as much as they can and to treat you badly in well obfuscated product designs.  They are generally good at this part.  Then to make it feel like a premium product and a tailored "wealth management" service they have to pretend convincingly that they aren't doing that.  And they are usually systemically awful at that part. Adding a layer of not very empowered relationship managers in a call centre doesn't usually work out that well. (Citibank/Citigold as was - pretty much all sacked now).  SJP is on more of a nice paper and letterhead "Coutts current account (Natwest underneath)" kind of back office shtick but with the franchise model "partner" salesforce.  

Changing times and people actively preferring "apps" over human interaction may be changing the shape of this finally.  Though it is still more likely an opportunity for challengers than incumbents who don't generally get a a pass on fail fast and fix it like a startup kicking out regular apps updates with abandon.  Somebody will crack well supported roboadvice on phones and scale more successfully at some point.

On SJP - if you want advice and have found someone you trust (individual not brand - relationship, communications, personal integrity) then it's nobody else's problem.  IFAs become FAs.  People join SJP.  It happens.
It's non-trivial to find and build a trusted long term relationship.  It costs what it costs. That's a priority or it's not.
Some people drive Audi.  Others drive Skoda.  They both get where they are going more or less in a car made from many of the same components. 

I too have used the SJP service so know it - as well as just recoiling from the fees (as some do here).  FA's are deemed inherently evil on MSE.  - but will not use it for my main pension.  I don't consider it good value and the complexity and product opacity offends my sensibilities.  I like and trust  my SJP "partner" as an individual but I don't care for their T&C and pension plan design so I have moved along to examine other options.

This is not a Nest of anything, it is a site for people to learn about finances and in this case, pensions.  I only DIY investments and a few pensions, but have no problems with those who use IFAs, but do have a problem with people using FAs esp expensive ones like SJP.

For what its worth, i am a retired epidemiologist who used to work for Dr Tony Fauci back in the day.  I know enough maths to tell me SJP dont earn their money.

cfw1994

atush said:

gm0 said:

This place is a nest of DIYers and IFAs - the FAs tend to keep their heads down.  They always get a kicking and these cheeky chappies more than most because they are out there chasing what used to be called the mass affluent rather than the higher net worth + private banking crowd.  The haut couture wealth managers come up less on here and thus don't get the same regular kicking. 

Various people have tried this wealth management for the masses over the years.  I dimly recall an expensive largely failed (profitability vs investment cost) effort by Aviva/NU (with their stapled together from mergers product range and infrastructure - arguably the Microsoft of UK financial services product management - lots of random overlapping stuff - somewhat stapled. Traditional retail FS banking and similar outfits always find this difficult.  To make it profitable at low net worth and large scale - they have to make you self-serve as much as they can and to treat you badly in well obfuscated product designs.  They are generally good at this part.  Then to make it feel like a premium product and a tailored "wealth management" service they have to pretend convincingly that they aren't doing that.  And they are usually systemically awful at that part. Adding a layer of not very empowered relationship managers in a call centre doesn't usually work out that well. (Citibank/Citigold as was - pretty much all sacked now).  SJP is on more of a nice paper and letterhead "Coutts current account (Natwest underneath)" kind of back office shtick but with the franchise model "partner" salesforce.  

Changing times and people actively preferring "apps" over human interaction may be changing the shape of this finally.  Though it is still more likely an opportunity for challengers than incumbents who don't generally get a a pass on fail fast and fix it like a startup kicking out regular apps updates with abandon.  Somebody will crack well supported roboadvice on phones and scale more successfully at some point.

On SJP - if you want advice and have found someone you trust (individual not brand - relationship, communications, personal integrity) then it's nobody else's problem.  IFAs become FAs.  People join SJP.  It happens.
It's non-trivial to find and build a trusted long term relationship.  It costs what it costs. That's a priority or it's not.
Some people drive Audi.  Others drive Skoda.  They both get where they are going more or less in a car made from many of the same components. 

I too have used the SJP service so know it - as well as just recoiling from the fees (as some do here).  FA's are deemed inherently evil on MSE.  - but will not use it for my main pension.  I don't consider it good value and the complexity and product opacity offends my sensibilities.  I like and trust  my SJP "partner" as an individual but I don't care for their T&C and pension plan design so I have moved along to examine other options.

This is not a Nest of anything, it is a site for people to learn about finances and in this case, pensions.  I only DIY investments and a few pensions, but have no problems with those who use IFAs, but do have a problem with people using FAs esp expensive ones like SJP.

For what its worth, i am a retired epidemiologist who used to work for Dr Tony Fauci back in the day.  I know enough maths to tell me SJP dont earn their money.

I broadly agree with your sentiments....but people deal with people.  
I have a good friend who uses an SJP advisor & won’t hear anything against them.   I’m not going to delve into their financial circumstances to change that view....we’ve had a couple of short chats about it, & that’s that.  They have a lovely tea and chat with him from time to time, so that’s nice
It doesn’t matter really if I think he is almost certainly being ripped off - it’s not my business (& hey - perhaps I’m wrong!).

Here, on an open forum, we can more easily call them out, & point out the only way really should be DIY or IFA.
FAs who are not independent are pretty unlikely to inhabit this money saving forum: their livelihood depends on finding enough people who don’t care about saving money (or at least, don’t understand the long term impacts of the costs of limiting investment choices).  In some ways that does make this a nest of DIY or IFA, I guess.....

On your last comment....the good Doctor is now 80: I guess he enjoys his work too much to retire!   Fair play to him, there are always some who love their work more than the alternatives.....& he is very good at what he does!  Does the past year make you wish you weren’t retired?