F & F Offers - Morally Correct

DjangoUnchained

Brenster said:

sourcrates said:

DjangoUnchained said:

sourcrates said:

DjangoUnchained said:

moral thing is though a bank wont accept your offer to settle the outstanding loan for 80% but they will happily sell the debt to an agent for 10% ?

Exactly, they have pre-existing arrangements with these companies in order to make the maximum amount of money, the sale of bad debt is still big business for the banks, remember, they are sold in bulk, many thousands of accounts at a time, there can be a lot of profit generated.

Simple me doesnt understand it. In my case I had an agreement with Barclaycard to pay off an amount a month which would have cleared it all within 3 years. I kept up the payments without fail, never missed any. all of a sudden its sold on to PRA, i never paid PRA a penny, i asked for the CCA, they have yet to supply it so debt is unenforceable until they do. So barclaycard have lost out my full payments by selling it to pra.. PRA havent got anything as Bcard havnt given them the CCA or cant, So far the only winner is me?

Its what they term a "numbers game", for every unenforceable debt, there will be 50 that are enforceable, so they still make lots of money, this industry is massive, and extends far beyond one tiny moral argument anyone cares to put forward.

When you see how the debt industry works, its actually a very naïve point of view, and with respect, shows the OP`s total lack of knowledge in that area.

Thanks for your input, i freely admit to not being hugely upto speed with how the banks sell on debts, perhaps it takes a person who capitalises on this scenario to know this.

I was always brought up in a way that if i cannot afford it, dont buy it.  And there are too many people trying to take this easy way out, which in the bigger picture impacts the bank fees and interest rates all of us responsible people end up paying (might be getting into my level of understanding here !!!)  I probably went against this in my early years but i paid it back, every penny, through hard work.  You are taking the highground on a minute peice of information you have read up on which is getting away from my initial comment.....is it right.

many people get into debt through no fault of their own. Sudden redundancy, business failure, sudden emergencies that cant always be foreseen. This pandemic wasnt foreseen and there is going to be massive financial implications for many. Some people will be able to pay their way out, find a job, get help where needed. Others wont be so lucky, be out of work and sadly rack up debt, just to eat and feed their kids. I dont think there are many people who deliberately set out to get large debts and then try to get out of paying. But banks and credit card companies have taken account of losses and debt in their business model, do not feel to sorry for them.
To a point i agree with you, people shouldnt buy if they cant afford. But i dont think anyone can really know what position they will be in 5 years time. And if everyone was too cautious no one would ever borrow, businesses wouldnt have investment, people couldnt buy houses and no one would buy new cars (something i will never do, im happy to drive £500 old bangers that i buy outright for cash) . Responsibility is fine but it has to be implimented on both sides. Also some people in society need to be protected, or need to be made more aware of financial matters. Perhaps something schools should do more. I appreciate the OP opinion but people can find themselves in this position and from what i understand this forum is to helpand advise rather than judge.

Brenster

DjangoUnchained said:

Brenster said:

sourcrates said:

DjangoUnchained said:

sourcrates said:

DjangoUnchained said:

moral thing is though a bank wont accept your offer to settle the outstanding loan for 80% but they will happily sell the debt to an agent for 10% ?

Exactly, they have pre-existing arrangements with these companies in order to make the maximum amount of money, the sale of bad debt is still big business for the banks, remember, they are sold in bulk, many thousands of accounts at a time, there can be a lot of profit generated.

Simple me doesnt understand it. In my case I had an agreement with Barclaycard to pay off an amount a month which would have cleared it all within 3 years. I kept up the payments without fail, never missed any. all of a sudden its sold on to PRA, i never paid PRA a penny, i asked for the CCA, they have yet to supply it so debt is unenforceable until they do. So barclaycard have lost out my full payments by selling it to pra.. PRA havent got anything as Bcard havnt given them the CCA or cant, So far the only winner is me?

Its what they term a "numbers game", for every unenforceable debt, there will be 50 that are enforceable, so they still make lots of money, this industry is massive, and extends far beyond one tiny moral argument anyone cares to put forward.

When you see how the debt industry works, its actually a very naïve point of view, and with respect, shows the OP`s total lack of knowledge in that area.

Thanks for your input, i freely admit to not being hugely upto speed with how the banks sell on debts, perhaps it takes a person who capitalises on this scenario to know this.

I was always brought up in a way that if i cannot afford it, dont buy it.  And there are too many people trying to take this easy way out, which in the bigger picture impacts the bank fees and interest rates all of us responsible people end up paying (might be getting into my level of understanding here !!!)  I probably went against this in my early years but i paid it back, every penny, through hard work.  You are taking the highground on a minute peice of information you have read up on which is getting away from my initial comment.....is it right.

many people get into debt through no fault of their own. Sudden redundancy, business failure, sudden emergencies that cant always be foreseen. This pandemic wasnt foreseen and there is going to be massive financial implications for many. Some people will be able to pay their way out, find a job, get help where needed. Others wont be so lucky, be out of work and sadly rack up debt, just to eat and feed their kids. I dont think there are many people who deliberately set out to get large debts and then try to get out of paying. But banks and credit card companies have taken account of losses and debt in their business model, do not feel to sorry for them.
To a point i agree with you, people shouldnt buy if they cant afford. But i dont think anyone can really know what position they will be in 5 years time. And if everyone was too cautious no one would ever borrow, businesses wouldnt have investment, people couldnt buy houses and no one would buy new cars (something i will never do, im happy to drive £500 old bangers that i buy outright for cash) . Responsibility is fine but it has to be implimented on both sides. Also some people in society need to be protected, or need to be made more aware of financial matters. Perhaps something schools should do more. I appreciate the OP opinion but people can find themselves in this position and from what i understand this forum is to helpand advise rather than judge.

Good point, and well made.
I have always said it was a discussion and not judgemental.

My main issue, is people still choosing this route with comments like ; 
I have had an inheritance i can afford to pay it all off but shall i offer 50%
or
I have £100k equity in my house, i owe £10k on a credit card, do you think they will accept a £3k F&F offer.
This is people taking advantage of the situation wrongly in my opinion.  

Suseka97

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as they say - but I don't think it wrong for people to offer reduced settlement figures to organisations who have paid very little for the debt.  You missed the point made previously that some creditors themselves have ignored much higher settlement values and instead prefer to sell their debts, in bulk, for pennies in the pound to a debt purchasing company.  What is the sense in that one might ask - and the answer is there is none because to them its just a business transaction and no morals are involved.  

sourcrates

Brenster said:

sourcrates said:

DjangoUnchained said:

sourcrates said:

DjangoUnchained said:

moral thing is though a bank wont accept your offer to settle the outstanding loan for 80% but they will happily sell the debt to an agent for 10% ?

Exactly, they have pre-existing arrangements with these companies in order to make the maximum amount of money, the sale of bad debt is still big business for the banks, remember, they are sold in bulk, many thousands of accounts at a time, there can be a lot of profit generated.

Simple me doesnt understand it. In my case I had an agreement with Barclaycard to pay off an amount a month which would have cleared it all within 3 years. I kept up the payments without fail, never missed any. all of a sudden its sold on to PRA, i never paid PRA a penny, i asked for the CCA, they have yet to supply it so debt is unenforceable until they do. So barclaycard have lost out my full payments by selling it to pra.. PRA havent got anything as Bcard havnt given them the CCA or cant, So far the only winner is me?

Its what they term a "numbers game", for every unenforceable debt, there will be 50 that are enforceable, so they still make lots of money, this industry is massive, and extends far beyond one tiny moral argument anyone cares to put forward.

When you see how the debt industry works, its actually a very naïve point of view, and with respect, shows the OP`s total lack of knowledge in that area.

Thanks for your input, i freely admit to not being hugely upto speed with how the banks sell on debts, perhaps it takes a person who capitalises on this scenario to know this.

I was always brought up in a way that if i cannot afford it, dont buy it.  And there are too many people trying to take this easy way out, which in the bigger picture impacts the bank fees and interest rates all of us responsible people end up paying (might be getting into my level of understanding here !!!)  I probably went against this in my early years but i paid it back, every penny, through hard work.  You are taking the highground on a minute peice of information you have read up on which is getting away from my initial comment.....is it right.

Please don`t assume I simply used Google to reply to you, I do actually have extensive knowledge of the debt advice industry, gained through experience, instruction and learning, over many years.

I advise people in these situations on a daily basis.

I do take the "highground", and exception, when someone post`s on my boards about a subject they clearly know nothing about, then seek to deride those less fortunate than themselves, with tales of their impeccable financial behaviour, and then loosely disguise their post as a so called "discussion".

I`m not being judgemental either, but Its clear to me you don`t understand the difference between a Bank, and a debt purchasing company, and how the system works, or have any understanding, knowledge of, or compassion for,  people who end up in problem debt.

Banks set aside millions in order to cover bad debt, its part and parcel of their business plan, it has little effect on your bank fee`s or interest rates whatsoever.

Thank you for taking the time to give us your "input" though, its much appreciated.

Brenster

Sourcrates you do put some good advise on here, i am not disputing that.  But you are mixing your response up between those who are unable to pay a debt off, and those who can but look for a shortcut out of it, my question was never about the details of how debt companies work, if you look at the title it was asking peoples opinion on the morality of F&F for those who dont need it.
Anyway not worth continuing the discussion as i am not here as a troll, but you are twisting the initial question to suit / prove your field of 'knowledge'.  We will agree to disagree.

sammyjammy

Brenster said:

  We will agree to disagree.

Because you say so?