Holiday during furlough

JakeClarkson

A year ago, my employer made the decision that for every month of being furloughed, they would take 40h of leave away from us. His motivation for this decision was that when the lockdown ended, employees would start using up their leave and there would be no one to work. At the same time the employer decided to pay 20% extra to the furlough scheme so that our pay would be at a similar level as before the lockdown. In his view, 20% is a goodwill gesture for taking away holiday hours. However, 40h holiday is worth more money than 20% extra. Now that the end of the tax year is approaching, the employer wants to take away all the remaining holiday hours. It doesn't matter if you have 20 left or over 100 in my case. I wasn't on any holiday when there was no lockdown because someone else was. And that person wasn't working, got paid for their holiday, and I feel like a donkey because the company wants to take all my holiday away. Several questions arise. 1.did the employer legally deduct 40h of leave for each month of furlough? 2.employees who used their leave could not have 40h deducted for furlough, which did not prevent the employer from taking those hours from others. This is not fair? I don't know what to do, where seek for a help? 

Xbigman

Your company has made up your furlough money to 100% of pay. If you had been on holiday you would have been on 100% pay. I don't see that you've lost out. Some employees may have had holiday whilst not furloughed which means they have gained time off but not money. Whereas others gaining something is annoying it's not illegal as long as you don't get less than you are contracted for. 
The way your company has gone about this is a bit disorganised but they are entitled to tell you when to take your holidays. I don't see that they've done much wrong. Think yourself lucky that not only do you still have a job but you've been furloughed on 100% pay.

Darren

Diamandis

Perfectly legal, they can always tell you when to take holiday,  just unfortunate for you that you hadn't used some beforehand. It's really generous that your employer is paying 100% of your wages, this is very rare and you're lucky.

GrumpyDil

Yes it sounds like they were a little disorganised but your employer can tell you when to take holiday as long as they give the appropriate notice which is twice the length of the holiday. Eg for one weeks holiday they should give you two weeks notice. So what your employer should be doing in respect of any remaining holiday is telling you that they will be treating you as on annual leave on xx dates. 
I'd echo the others. They may not have communicated ed this well but you've been lucky to have your wages topped up as well.
I haven't been furloughed and to manage our company leave we were required to use our annual leave as normal, even though we couldn't actually go anywhere for most of the year. 

JakeClarkson

There wasn't notice on holiday, no dates no nothing. They just cut hours allowance in the system. 
But, what I tried to explain is some people went on proper holiday just after 1st lockdown. My mate been on 3 weeks holiday while I worked. So, me and him have had the same money at the end of the month, but he was 3 weeks off work. 
Now my employer see nothing wrong with that I'm gonna loose 3 weeks holiday. 

74jax

JakeClarkson said:

There wasn't notice on holiday, no dates no nothing. They just cut hours allowance in the system. 
But, what I tried to explain is some people went on proper holiday just after 1st lockdown. My mate been on 3 weeks holiday while I worked. So, me and him have had the same money at the end of the month, but he was 3 weeks off work. 
Now my employer see nothing wrong with that I'm gonna loose 3 weeks holiday. 

I think I understand. Are you saying if your mate is normally on holiday for 3 weeks you usually don't recieve the same amount of money? But in this case you have?

What do you mean, you worked? Were you not furloughed? 

TBagpuss

as others have said, your employer can require you to take holiday - although they need to give you notice. So far as furlough is concerned , you can take (or be required to take) holiday while furloughed, you should get 1005 of normal pay and your employer won't be able to claim that back from the government, but it's perfectly valid for them to tell you that that's what is happening.
In terms of your untaken holiday, what he is effectively doing is telling to now that you are being required to take those hours as holiday - you'll be paid as normal but it will be holiday pay not furlough.

You haven't lost anything, you may be having to holiday at home rather than being able to save the hours and go away but to be honest, if you've been furloughed on full pay your employer has been pretty generous and I don't think you have any cause for complaint. 
 If you are back at work then it is a bit different and in terms of your statutory holiday entitlement, your employer can't retrospectively take those hours off you, and they may be in breach of contract if they try to take away any contractual holiday although that would depend on the wording of your contract. 

getmore4less

I can see where the OP is coming from 
furloughed for ...... then the company opens for say 4weeks they come into work while someone else takes 4 weeks holiday because there is only enough work for 1 person now both back on furlough and OP has to use up their 4 weeks holiday pay.

fair  probably not,  legal yes.   (not lucky to get that 20% that was a requirement of using up holiday pay)

Over the total time  OP worked 4 weeks  gets 4 weeks x 20% more pay than the one that did nothing.

Typical accrual would be 2.3-2.9  days a month you would soon used up the full years allowance at 40h deductions

JakeClarkson

getmore4less said:

I can see where the OP is coming from 
furloughed for ...... then the company opens for say 4weeks they come into work while someone else takes 4 weeks holiday because there is only enough work for 1 person now both back on furlough and OP has to use up their 4 weeks holiday pay.

fair  probably not,  legal yes.   (not lucky to get that 20% that was a requirement of using up holiday pay)

Over the total time  OP worked 4 weeks  gets 4 weeks x 20% more pay than the one that did nothing.

Typical accrual would be 2.3-2.9  days a month you would soon used up the full years allowance at 40h deductions

That's the point. 
Some people went on holiday between 1st and 2nd lockdown. My plan was to use holiday in spring, but we all know we have 3rd lockdown and I can't go anywhere. 
In summary, there are people who have been out of work 3 weeks longer this year and earned the same money.

This applies to the same jobs with the same pay. 

sharpe106

What exactly are you wanting 100% pay as normal and then the extra 3 weeks off?

74jax

sharpe106 said:

What exactly are you wanting 100% pay as normal and then the extra 3 weeks off?

Yes, I believe he worked (not furloughed) (my mate was on holiday whilst I worked) and so if I was him I would want my holiday too.