State Pension forecast - COPE query

Mick70

afternoon all,
just checked state pension forecast for both myself and spouse ,  if it shows as an example £9000 but says you still need to contribute x number of NI years ,  but then scroll down and it refers to having been contracted out for some years , click in that link and it says a COPE amount of say £20 a week .   
Is this simply additional information OR  does it mean come state pension retirement that this COPE amount will be deducted from your state pension forecast ?
Wish they would make this clearer

many thanks in advance,
Mick

Notepad_Phil

Don't worry it is informational only, it won't be deducted.

xylophone

The COPE amount was used once only in calculating your "starting amount" for new state pension.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78018931/#Comment_78018931

molerat

Mick70 said:

Is this simply additional information OR  does it mean come state pension retirement that this COPE amount will be deducted from your state pension forecast ?
Wish they would make this clearer

What is unclear about the bit in the text after the COPE amount that says "This will not affect your state pension forecast" ?

Marcon

molerat said:

Mick70 said:

Is this simply additional information OR  does it mean come state pension retirement that this COPE amount will be deducted from your state pension forecast ?
Wish they would make this clearer

What is unclear about the bit in the text after the COPE amount that says "This will not affect your state pension forecast" ?

Quite a lot, judging by how often this very same question gets asked here!

ellie99

molerat said:

Mick70 said:

Is this simply additional information OR  does it mean come state pension retirement that this COPE amount will be deducted from your state pension forecast ?
Wish they would make this clearer

What is unclear about the bit in the text after the COPE amount that says "This will not affect your state pension forecast" ?

Although most of us know the COPE amount doesn't affect state pension, I can understand people wanting to make certain, given that it can affect some benefits.

For example, I've just been told my COPE amount will be deducted from my widows pension once I turn 60. This was a shock to me because I'd not heard of this law before. Because I knew it's not deducted from state pension it had never crossed my mind that it would be deducted from widows pension.

Marcon

ellie99 said:

For example, I've just been told my COPE amount will be deducted from my widows pension once I turn 60. This was a shock to me because I'd not heard of this law before. Because I knew it's not deducted from state pension it had never crossed my mind that it would be deducted from widows pension.

That doesn't sound right - have you got that in writing and if so, please could you post the relevant bit here?

ellie99

Marcon said:

ellie99 said:

For example, I've just been told my COPE amount will be deducted from my widows pension once I turn 60. This was a shock to me because I'd not heard of this law before. Because I knew it's not deducted from state pension it had never crossed my mind that it would be deducted from widows pension.

That doesn't sound right - have you got that in writing and if so, please could you post the relevant bit here?

I do have it in writing. It says - 
"Your Widow's Benefit includes an Additional Pension based on your late husband's earnings.
During the period 6th April 1978 to 5th April 1997 of your working life you also earned a Guaranteed Minimum Pension (GMP).
From your 60th birthday, by law, any GMP you have built up in your company or personal pension scheme has to be deducted from your Widow's Benefit."

I'm assuming that GMP is the same thing as COPE, as the figure quoted is exactly the same amount as the COPE amount on my state pension forecast. 
(It's from being contracted out 1980 - 1987).

xylophone

From Widows Benefits - Gov. uk 58001 

Effect of guaranteed minimum pension 

58342 Entitlement to a GMP from a contracted-out occupational pension scheme may affect the rate at which WMA and WP is payable. References to GMP include amounts treated as GMP, entitlement to which arises under the provisions of 

1. personal pensions beginning on 1.7.881 and 
2. money purchase schemes beginning on 6.4.88. 

1 Personal Pension Schemes (Appropriate Schemes) Regs, reg 5; 2 Personal & Occupational Pension Schemes (Consequent Provisions) Regs, reg 4(3) 

58343 If the widow is entitled to receive a GMP from her late husband’s occupational pension scheme, her WMA or WP is reduced by the lower1 of 

1. the amount of the AP or 
2. the total amount of any GMP. 

1 PS Act 93, s 46(1) 

58344 A widow over pensionable age may be entitled to a GMP in her own right. If she does not claim RP her WMA or WP will, from age 60, be reduced by 

1. her late husband’s GMP and 
2. her own GMP1 

1 PS Act 93, s 46(1)(a) & (b) 

58345 WMA or WP is reduced to take account of GMP after any adjustment for the widow’s age (see DMG 58265 and 58282). 

58346 Female pensionable age is changing (see DMG Chapter 75). However, WMA and WP claimants continue to be entitled to their own GMP at age 601. This means that deductions should be made in respect of both 

1. personal GMP and 
2. any inherited GMP (see DMG 56338) 

of WMA and WP claimants from age 60, unless they are in respect of an appropriate personal pension scheme or a contracted-out money purchase scheme (see DMG (see DMG 58347). 

1 PS Act 93, s 46(1) & 181(1) 

58347 There can be entitlement to WMA and WP after pensionable age has been reached (see DMG 58016 and 58289). Deductions in respect of an appropriate personal pension scheme or a contracted-out money purchase scheme will apply from female pensionable age1. 

Note: See DMG Chapter 74 for guidance on pensionable age for women who reach that age on or after 6.4.16 and DMG Chapter 75 for guidance on pensionable age for women who reach that age before 6.4.16. 

58348 Therefore, if a widow remains entitled to WMA or WP after she reaches female pensionable age there may be 

1. a deduction at age 60 and  

1. a further deduction in respect of an appropriate personal pension scheme or a contracted-out money purchase scheme when female pensionable age is reached. 

58349 - 58354 

1 PS Act 93, s 48; Pensions Act 1995, Sch 4, Part I, para 1 

Vol 10 

ellie99

Thank you @xylophone, I hadn't managed to find that myself (not that I disbelieved my letter). I think it's something that might not be well-known, I certainly didn't expect it. Which is why I have sympathy with others trying to check their entitlements. My state pension age is a few weeks before my 67th birthday, so I had just assumed that the widows benefit would continue until then. I should have known better than to assume!

xylophone

Have you obtained a state pension forecast?

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension