When is an emerging market not an emerging market...?

Bimbly

This fund does not hold any US equity. Its a problem with the information source you are using. Look at the top 10. https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/p/0lul/av-mym-blackrock-emerging-markets-equity-aquila-c-pn

The information source is the source from my pension provider. Within my pension account, I click through to open the factsheet. I once told them that I had been looking at factsheets on TrustNet and they told me not to do this as I wouldn't be looking at the same fund. Whether this was mis-information or not, I can't say, but surely the factsheet provided by my pension is the definitive source to look at?

I can't share the link to fundslibrary.co.uk, as it has a user login tag on the end, but it's been updated to holdings at the end of November (previously was end of October). It's still 14% invested in US:

Bimbly

Thanks for taking a look, though. Perhaps I should just write to them and see what they say.

Linton

Bimbly said:

This fund does not hold any US equity. Its a problem with the information source you are using. Look at the top 10. https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/p/0lul/av-mym-blackrock-emerging-markets-equity-aquila-c-pn

The information source is the source from my pension provider. Within my pension account, I click through to open the factsheet. I once told them that I had been looking at factsheets on TrustNet and they told me not to do this as I wouldn't be looking at the same fund. Whether this was mis-information or not, I can't say, but surely the factsheet provided by my pension is the definitive source to look at?

I can't share the link to fundslibrary.co.uk, as it has a user login tag on the end, but it's been updated to holdings at the end of November (previously was end of October). It's still 14% invested in US:

It is probably not incorrect information. But I believe the "Country Allocation" is not telling you what you want to know.  Compare the Country allocation with the Top 10 holdings.

The following are certainly Chinese companies:
Alibaba - 8.8%
Tencent - 6.7%
Meituan - 2%
JD.com - 1.1%
China Construction Bank - 1.0%
Ping An Insurance - 0.8%

Adding up the %s gives 20.4%.  The Country Allocation gives China as a whole at 15.7%.  This is a contradiction. Also there are no US companies in the top 10.

dunstonh

Bimbly said:

This fund does not hold any US equity. Its a problem with the information source you are using. Look at the top 10. https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/p/0lul/av-mym-blackrock-emerging-markets-equity-aquila-c-pn

The information source is the source from my pension provider. Within my pension account, I click through to open the factsheet. I once told them that I had been looking at factsheets on TrustNet and they told me not to do this as I wouldn't be looking at the same fund. Whether this was mis-information or not, I can't say, but surely the factsheet provided by my pension is the definitive source to look at?

I can't share the link to fundslibrary.co.uk, as it has a user login tag on the end, but it's been updated to holdings at the end of November (previously was end of October). It's still 14% invested in US:

These type of pension funds have multiple versions and frequently people do get them mixed up.  Plus, they tend to have the wrong charges data (assume the maximum rather than actual).   Telling you not to do it is probably wrong. Telling you to take care would have been better.
I was involved with a beta software project some years back in fund data supply and was told that the fund houses can map data to hundreds of fields.  However, some end software had as few as 8 fields.  Most had more than that but not many had the capability of showing all the fields.    Where no field could be mapped, they would pick what they thought was the closest equivalent in terms of investment risk.   Financial Express and Morningstar have the most fields mapped.  However, even then errors do pop up periodically. 

[Deleted User]

Bimbly said:

This fund does not hold any US equity. Its a problem with the information source you are using. Look at the top 10. https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/p/0lul/av-mym-blackrock-emerging-markets-equity-aquila-c-pn

The information source is the source from my pension provider. Within my pension account, I click through to open the factsheet. I once told them that I had been looking at factsheets on TrustNet and they told me not to do this as I wouldn't be looking at the same fund. Whether this was mis-information or not, I can't say, but surely the factsheet provided by my pension is the definitive source to look at?

I can't share the link to fundslibrary.co.uk, as it has a user login tag on the end, but it's been updated to holdings at the end of November (previously was end of October). It's still 14% invested in US:

Top 10 holdings and percentages are not aligned with the Trustnet version of the fund. I would definitely contact your pension provider and ask for correct info. 

bowlhead99

Deleted_User said:

Bimbly said:

This fund does not hold any US equity. Its a problem with the information source you are using. Look at the top 10. https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/p/0lul/av-mym-blackrock-emerging-markets-equity-aquila-c-pn

The information source is the source from my pension provider. Within my pension account, I click through to open the factsheet. I once told them that I had been looking at factsheets on TrustNet and they told me not to do this as I wouldn't be looking at the same fund. Whether this was mis-information or not, I can't say, but surely the factsheet provided by my pension is the definitive source to look at?

I can't share the link to fundslibrary.co.uk, as it has a user login tag on the end, but it's been updated to holdings at the end of November (previously was end of October). It's still 14% invested in US:

Top 10 holdings and percentages are not aligned with the Trustnet version of the fund. I would definitely contact your pension provider and ask for correct info. 

Trustnet does have a page for the specific Aviva pension branded version of the Blackrock product, with a top 10 holdings list as of 31/12/20 which can be seen at Av MyM BlackRock Emerging Markets Equity (Aquila C) Pn Fund factsheet | Trustnet. 

You can also click from the bottom of that Trustnet page to 'provider's own factsheet' which gives you the Aviva branded / headed version of the factsheet; the Aviva-headed one that they're hosting at trustnet/FE is headed up December 2020, but is using 'fund facts' for 30/11 on a couple of its pages and an 'asset allocation' of 31/10 for that section of the factsheet.

It's clearly the same fund with the same exact name, and the differences in percentages of top 10 holdings are simply going to be due to reporting a different month-end (i.e. Oct or Nov vs Dec).

As mentioned on the earlier pages, companies such as Alibaba and JD.com trade on the US stock exchange as ADRs (American Depositary Receipts) and it would be common for a fund domiciled here in the West to buy into those companies through those instruments (even though both are now also listed in HK, Alibaba did its original IPO on NYSE for example). Tencent is listed on the main board in HK so would probably come up as 'Developed Asia Ex Japan' if the fund manager was doing a factsheet based on where the shares were trading.     Meanwhile the Trustnet report does its asset allocation based on the HQ of the company so would bucket both Alibaba and Tencent into China.

Thrugelmir

Moe_The_Bartender said:

Thrugelmir said:

cloud_dog said:

 I'm not sure China still falls under the EM concept.  I appreciate it may fall under the definition of the defined index but, even so....

The disappearance of Jack Ma should be sufficient warning of where the real power lies. China has it's own version of capitalism and it's far removed from that of the USA. 

He has reappeared now.

In a 48 second video clip. There's only one boss in China. 

[Deleted User]

bowlhead99 said:

Deleted_User said:

Bimbly said:

This fund does not hold any US equity. Its a problem with the information source you are using. Look at the top 10. https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/p/0lul/av-mym-blackrock-emerging-markets-equity-aquila-c-pn

The information source is the source from my pension provider. Within my pension account, I click through to open the factsheet. I once told them that I had been looking at factsheets on TrustNet and they told me not to do this as I wouldn't be looking at the same fund. Whether this was mis-information or not, I can't say, but surely the factsheet provided by my pension is the definitive source to look at?

I can't share the link to fundslibrary.co.uk, as it has a user login tag on the end, but it's been updated to holdings at the end of November (previously was end of October). It's still 14% invested in US:

Top 10 holdings and percentages are not aligned with the Trustnet version of the fund. I would definitely contact your pension provider and ask for correct info. 

Trustnet does have a page for the specific Aviva pension branded version of the Blackrock product, with a top 10 holdings list as of 31/12/20 which can be seen at Av MyM BlackRock Emerging Markets Equity (Aquila C) Pn Fund factsheet | Trustnet. 

You can also click from the bottom of that Trustnet page to 'provider's own factsheet' which gives you the Aviva branded / headed version of the factsheet; the Aviva-headed one that they're hosting at trustnet/FE is headed up December 2020, but is using 'fund facts' for 30/11 on a couple of its pages and an 'asset allocation' of 31/10 for that section of the factsheet.

It's clearly the same fund with the same exact name, and the differences in percentages of top 10 holdings are simply going to be due to reporting a different month-end (i.e. Oct or Nov vs Dec).

As mentioned on the earlier pages, companies such as Alibaba and JD.com trade on the US stock exchange as ADRs (American Depositary Receipts) and it would be common for a fund domiciled here in the West to buy into those companies through those instruments (even though both are now also listed in HK, Alibaba did its original IPO on NYSE for example). Tencent is listed on the main board in HK so would probably come up as 'Developed Asia Ex Japan' if the fund manager was doing a factsheet based on where the shares were trading.     Meanwhile the Trustnet report does its asset allocation based on the HQ of the company so would bucket both Alibaba and Tencent into China.

While hypothetically possible, I doubt percentages changed that much. What I do not doubt is that reporting country of origin based on where ADRs trade is plain wrong. 

Malthusian

Thrugelmir said:

Global indexes should have a far greater exposure to China. They don't as the risks are considerable.

Global indexes have the exposure to China that the market cap merits. Unless the index methodology is more complex than market-cap-weighting of course. But most indices that you would count as "global indices" don't make value judgments on risks.

At the core the allegiance to the State. Which takes precedence over anything else.

If 2020 has taught us anything it's that most people just do as they're told by the government, and most of the rest keep their mouths shut and their heads down for the sake of a quiet life. We're not special and nor are the Chinese. (This isn't a conspiracy post, Covid is real, is very dangerous to huge numbers of people, and vaccines work.)

If Chinese companies double in value the indices will double their exposure, even if the risks and the politics of China stay the same.

On the question of whether China is an emerging market, I think it's a pretty simple one. If you're governed by a communist dictatorship, you're an emerging market.

It's certainly not developed. On the to-do list of the process of economic development is "transition to a democratic government that safeguards individual property rights". Not got round to it yet = not developed. How big you are doesn't come into it. The term is "developed market". Not "big market" or "lucrative market".

(An emerging market is simply the opposite of a developed one. The term replaced "less developed market" which in turn replaced "developing market" which replaced "undeveloped market".)

Thrugelmir

Malthusian said:

Thrugelmir said:

Global indexes should have a far greater exposure to China. They don't as the risks are considerable.

Global indexes have the exposure to China that the market cap merits. Unless the index methodology is more complex than market-cap-weighting of course. But most indices that you would count as "global indices" don't make value judgments on risks.

At the core the allegiance to the State. Which takes precedence over anything else.

If 2020 has taught us anything it's that most people just do as they're told by the government, and most of the rest keep their mouths shut and their heads down for the sake of a quiet life. We're not special and nor are the Chinese. (This isn't a conspiracy post, Covid is real, is very dangerous to huge numbers of people, and vaccines work.)

If Chinese companies double in value the indices will double their exposure, even if the risks and the politics of China stay the same.

On the question of whether China is an emerging market, I think it's a pretty simple one. If you're governed by a communist dictatorship, you're an emerging market.

It's certainly not developed. On the to-do list of the process of economic development is "transition to a democratic government that safeguards individual property rights". Not got round to it yet = not developed. How big you are doesn't come into it. The term is "developed market". Not "big market" or "lucrative market".

(An emerging market is simply the opposite of a developed one. The term replaced "less developed market" which in turn replaced "developing market" which replaced "undeveloped market".)

All contained here. 
https://www.msci.com/index-methodology