Didn't serve party wall notice for loft conversion

lad22

Hello, my neighbours are suddenly doing major works. I'm an end terrace and they're right next to me. I have a loft conversion and their roof is off. I'm currently renting the house out, and my tenants informed me. I've checked the legislation and they haven't served me (they have my work and home emails) or dropped at letter off at the house for me, or wrote to me at my flat. Even if they had, it seems that if a neighbour doesn't reply, they're deemed to object. They definitely know about party wall agreements because I signed one for them about ten years ago. The legislation says they must pay for my surveyor if I object. I spoke to a solicitor this morning but they said I could put myself at risk if I got an injunction that resulted in then losing money from the building halting, even though the legislation was intended to prevent possible damage to my property and it could already have been caused! I have legal expenses insurance, but they're saying it will take 8 days to clear and any costs beforehand I must pay! They also said they only allow £100 an hour, which unfortunately for a solicitor is hopeless (the local sol I spoke to said his hourly rate was double that!). There's also no sign of a planning application for the loft conversion, though maybe they don't need it?

Any thoughts on what I should do?

macman

Speak to your neighbours if you are otherwise on good terms?

A loft conversion will certainly require building control approval-has that been issued?

The PW Act is a highly flawed piece if legislation, as it offers no remedy for a breach of the Act save obtaining an injunction.

lad22

Unfortunately we're not - they sued me over a right of way right behind my kitchen years ago, and then broke my gate off and threw it in my garden! And then ignored my 2 letters asking them to replace it. I can't see any planning application on the local authority website. 

ratechaser

A planning application may well not be required if the conversion is covered under permitted development rules.

lad22

ratechaser said:

A planning application may well not be required if the conversion is covered under permitted development rules.

So how would you find out about that? 
And back to the lack of party wall agreement - could I be criticised for getting an interim injunction? And is there really a risk that I wouldn't get the cost of that back, or that I would have to pay their costs of it if my "interruption" causes them loss? Sounds bonkers to me. 

moneysavinghero

Do you have any genuine objections to the loft conversion, or do you just want to get revenge for them suing you. If not then maybe the easiest thing is to just let it go.

lad22

moneysavinghero said:

Do you have any genuine objections to the loft conversion, or do you just want to get revenge for them suing you. If not then maybe the easiest thing is to just let it go.

I am genuinely worried about damage to my property. The tenants say they can see sky through their (my) roof in the attic!

princeofpounds

I think you should a) speak to another solicitor or two, b) ensure you get them to properly explain any points they make that you don't fully understand and c) precisely note what they say for the purposes of relating it here. It is very hard to comment on what a solicitor told you if you don't fully follow it yourself, and your recounting of what they said is vague.

However - I suspect that the solicitor was trying to explain to you the issues of 'cross-undertakings as to damages'. Basically, injunctions - even interim injunctions - are serious things that can really cause someone material losses. If a court is willing to make an interim injunction, before a full examination of the case, they want to minimise the risk that you are doing it without a valid basis. So they will often seek an undertaking from you that if your application turns out to be baseless, you will pay the other party for the losses you actions have caused. If your case is strong, then you won't have to pay.

In the case of party walls, the main questions would be 1) Is this really party wall work? and 2) If it is, does it actually pose a risk of structural damage? Silly example to explain that second point; imagine if a neighbour had to halt an entire house renovation due to an interim injunction because of one screw accidentally going through a wall... a court may view that as disproportionate, even if it is technically party wall work. I would imagine a good solicitor would be able to give you a strong steer on that. The link below is a little anecdote of how that can happen: https://collier-stevens.co.uk/advice-hub/party-wall/careful-with-that-party-wall-injunction/

Also, an explanation here: https://www.morrlaw.com/party-wall/cross-undertaking-in-damages/

There is one other point - some types of injunctions can also lead to liability to innocent third parties who lose out because of the injunction. I don't think that would be particularly relevant in this case, but I'm no lawyer so thought I'd just mention it.

My view - this work is material enough to consider an injunction, if you feel you need the protection of a party wall surveyor. But you may be able to get reassurance in a less formal/adversarial manner, for example meeting the contractor and discussing the plans. 

princeofpounds

lad22 said:

moneysavinghero said:

Do you have any genuine objections to the loft conversion, or do you just want to get revenge for them suing you. If not then maybe the easiest thing is to just let it go.

I am genuinely worried about damage to my property. The tenants say they can see sky through their (my) roof in the attic!

Ha ok, I wrote the last sentence of my last post before you posted this.

greatcrested

Seems to be a clear risk to your property.

Get the work stopped.

Either through peaceful ngotiation, which it seems is unlikely to work, or through an injunction.

Either

* go back to your solicitor and get clarification of the risks/costs, and his costs, and/or

* consult another solicitor who specialises in the area, and/or

* speak to a local Party Wall surveyor who may not only advise on the structural issues, the PW process, but also help with the injunction

anselld

lad22 said:

moneysavinghero said:

Do you have any genuine objections to the loft conversion, or do you just want to get revenge for them suing you. If not then maybe the easiest thing is to just let it go.

I am genuinely worried about damage to my property. The tenants say they can see sky through their (my) roof in the attic!

Tenants can be prone to exaggeration.  Probably be worth having a look yourself before going all-guns-blazing with an injunction.

PWA should have been served but there should be no real reason for your property to be damaged or left exposed.  Is there not a firewall separating the properties at attic level?  How much attic do you have left anyway if you already have a loft conversion?

Regarding planning permission, the rules for PD are here....
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/36/loft_conversion
... so basically if it is at the rear of a terraced property it is unlikely to need PP.