Our Council notified us of increase of our the council tax for granny/annex flat up to 200%

Mickey666

lincroft1710 said:

Mickey666 said:

It's a granny flat/annexe if it is capable of self-contained living, which basically means it has a kitchen and bathroom.  External doors and or internal doors do not matter.
I don't quite understand your question about you proving it's a granny flat because presumably that's already well-established.  It sounds as if it has already been assessed as such, which is why it has a CT band at all.  Perhaps you meant how to prove it's NOT a granny flat?  For that, I think you'd have to take out the kitchen . . . which might be as easy as removing the cooker and then asking the council to reassess the property for CT.
Alternatively, do you have a granny you could move in - dependent relatives (ie over 65) mean 100% CT exemption

Internal doors do matter (although not in this case) if the only access to the flat is via a main room in the house, it would not then be considered capable of separate occupation and could not be separately banded.

CT banding is carried out by the Valuation Office Agency (part of HMRC) not the council. Just taking the cooker out, would not be enough, the cooker point would also need to be removed and the VOA may also insist the sink and water pipes are removed.

As well as certain relatives over 65, certain relatives under 65 who are severely mentally impaired or substantially and permanently disabled will also qualify for Class W exemption from paying CT.

Fair enough to have the cooker point removed as well as the actual cooker, but the sink and water pipes would seem excessive.  Lots of houses have a 'utility room' with a sink and water supply but I didn't think that alone would be sufficient to deem it a self-contained dwelling.  How can it be self-contained if there are no cooking facilities?

Totobaer139

Hasbeen said:

Move your partner in from main house.
You will then both get single persons discount?

Yes , I thought about it too.
but I prefer to use it as a last resort if the council wont accept that our annex is exempt from the premium charges .
In our case We wont be able to benefit from 25% single person discount due to the number of occupants left at the main house if we will register one of us their, 
but might be other couples with less people in the main house can  get 25% single discount  and 50% on annex

Totobaer139

Also apologies for the butchered post , I have not realised I copied the post several times. 

nottsphil

Totobaer139 said:

Also apologies for the butchered post , I have not realised I copied the post several times. 

Why don't you just edit it instead of annoying even more people? 

lincroft1710

Mickey666 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Mickey666 said:

It's a granny flat/annexe if it is capable of self-contained living, which basically means it has a kitchen and bathroom.  External doors and or internal doors do not matter.
I don't quite understand your question about you proving it's a granny flat because presumably that's already well-established.  It sounds as if it has already been assessed as such, which is why it has a CT band at all.  Perhaps you meant how to prove it's NOT a granny flat?  For that, I think you'd have to take out the kitchen . . . which might be as easy as removing the cooker and then asking the council to reassess the property for CT.
Alternatively, do you have a granny you could move in - dependent relatives (ie over 65) mean 100% CT exemption

Internal doors do matter (although not in this case) if the only access to the flat is via a main room in the house, it would not then be considered capable of separate occupation and could not be separately banded.

CT banding is carried out by the Valuation Office Agency (part of HMRC) not the council. Just taking the cooker out, would not be enough, the cooker point would also need to be removed and the VOA may also insist the sink and water pipes are removed.

As well as certain relatives over 65, certain relatives under 65 who are severely mentally impaired or substantially and permanently disabled will also qualify for Class W exemption from paying CT.

Fair enough to have the cooker point removed as well as the actual cooker, but the sink and water pipes would seem excessive.  Lots of houses have a 'utility room' with a sink and water supply but I didn't think that alone would be sufficient to deem it a self-contained dwelling.  How can it be self-contained if there are no cooking facilities?

VOA have certainly requested removal of sink and pipes in some circumstances, especially where the annex kitchen was a long way from main house kitchen or on an upper floor. When I worked in VOA I dealt with many annex cases and the requirements changed over the years either because of High Court judgements or Head Office policy. Sometimes if the caseworker believed there was a genuine attempt to merge, then they would accept the minimum adaptation.

Probably best summed up as each case on its own merits and if the CT payer disagreed with the VOA decision then there was always recourse to the independent Valuation Tribunal  

xylophone

It’s nit empty .

That must be a relief.......

CIS

Totobaer139 said:

Hi Thank you everybody for the comments 
It’s nit empty . The flat has the furniture but council is trying to harpee said:

Assuming your in england contact the council and get them to look up The Council Tax (prescribed classes or dwellings) (england) (amendment) regulations 2012 SI 2012/2964 - you can find it online - the explanatory note clearly says annexes being used by the residents cannot be charged an empty home premium. Also the premium only applies to empty & unoccupied property so if it's furnished the premium is not applicable. If they've given you a 50% annexes discount they must have already accepted it's an annexe and is being used by you as part of your home so presumably it is furnished?

Yes we are in England.
Thank you so much for providing the regulations number ! That is very helpful as unfortunately our council  thinks that they are separate country/state with their own law  . They keep referring to their own guidelines . Our son used to live their but now he moved out so the flat has some furniture and mainly we use it as a storage facilities . 

I've dealt with annexe issues many times (I deal with council tax disputes/tribunals as my day job) and the one thing you do see is that many councils tend to try and make up the rules as they go on that and many other issues. I've dealt with many council tax cases that should never have been an issue but have had to take them to tribunal simply to be told, yes, you're correct, the council are wrong.

Totobaer139

CIS said:
I've dealt with annexe issues many times (I deal with council tax disputes/tribunals as my day job) and the one thing you do see is that many councils tend to try and make up the rules as they go on that and many other issues. I've dealt with many council tax cases that should never have been an issue but have had to take them to tribunal simply to be told, yes, you're correct, the council are wrong.

I have submitted the formal complain now and going to wait and see what they come back with . 
I hope I wont have to go all the way just  to prove them wrong, but if I have to I will.
I understand that you used to work for council so I was hopping that you might be you can answer my second question 🙏🏻:
Are the council allowed to visit for inspection private (non rental) property? And if so on what bases/ground? 
Our council think that they are police and Her Majesty court all in one and they can do whatever they want . 

oldbikebloke

Totobaer139 said:
Are the council allowed to visit for inspection private (non rental) property? And if so on what bases/ground? 
Our council think that they are police and Her Majesty court all in one and they can do whatever they want .

 

they can knock on your door
you can decide whether to open it
you can refuse to let them in
you can refuse to speak to them 
they must depart 

in other words, no they do not have the right to inspect inside the property without a court order
However, they will almost certainly ask your neighbours the same questions about your house, and your neighbours will probably tell them 

lincroft1710

Totobaer139 said:

CIS said:
I've dealt with annexe issues many times (I deal with council tax disputes/tribunals as my day job) and the one thing you do see is that many councils tend to try and make up the rules as they go on that and many other issues. I've dealt with many council tax cases that should never have been an issue but have had to take them to tribunal simply to be told, yes, you're correct, the council are wrong.

Are the council allowed to visit for inspection private (non rental) property? And if so on what bases/ground? 
Our council think that they are police and Her Majesty court all in one and they can do whatever they want . 

Of course they can ask to inspect your home for the purposes of trying to determine facts relating to CT payment. Of course unless they have a legal right to inspect, you can refuse. But if the inspection would mean that a Tribunal hearing would be unnecessary or it would make the facts clearer for the hearing and you had refused, you would be criticised by the Tribunal.