Renewing Fixed Term Contract - Terrible Empolyer

General_Grant

juraj.kecso said:

Hi,

If your partner is on a fixed-term contract (with an end date) and neither she nor the company intend to extend this contract no formal notice is required (technically, a notice of termination commenced on the day the contract was signed). Any further notice would only need to be given if either party wanted to end the contract before the end date.

On the appointed date the contract stops being valid and your partner stops being an employee.

However, there is nothing wrong with contacting the line manager, making them aware of the fact that the contract is due to come to an end and ask whether there are any plans to extend.

If your partner really wants to leave immediately, she can also resign with immediate effect (but will forego any notice pay entitlement). You will need to seek advice on any impact this could have on benefits etc.

If your partner is too stressed about working there, I'd suggest speaking to the GP.

It is not sensible to "resign with immediate effect" if by that is meant saying "I'm off and not coming back".  She has a contract (even if not holding it on paper right now) because she has worked and been paid and therefore is bound by the terms and needs to give notice - either statutory or longer if contractual.
To break the contract by not giving notice could lead to a greater financial loss than simply not being paid for the time she is not working.

juraj.kecso

Hi,

I'm not exactly sure what advice you are looking for. Your partner's options are:

She can continue working until the fixed-term contract ends if she's prepared to continue working. No additional notice of termination is required. The contract will end when it was originally due to end.

She can also resign with immediate effect if she finds the situation too much. Where an employee resigns with immediate effect  they would be in theory in breach of contract, but the likelihood of any action by the company is very close to zero. Any reference from them would only say that she resigned. Is her pay really worth all the stress she endures? You said that she wanted to take unpaid leave to care for your child anyway, so what is the difference?

She can speak to the GP about not being fit for work if she's suffering from work-related stress.

If the company failed to properly consider any furlough leave, flexible working or statutory unpaid parental leave request, there may be direct or indirect sex discrimination claim, but you'd need to talk to employment law solicitor and submit a grievance.

Manxman_in_exile

As others have said she can either wait until the contract comes to an end and simply stop working there, or she can give whatever notice is required under the contract to end it earlier.  I wouldn't resign without notice unless absolutely desperate.

With the fixed term ending in April I'd normally suggest she sticks it out until then, but the Covid situation complicates it re (not) working from home.

I presume there is no union?

I thought - but I may be mistaken - that under the first lockdown it was possible for staff not to attend the workplace if they feared for their health?  If I'm right, is that a possibility here?  I'd say that health concerns generally are much greater under this lockdown than the first one so I'd explore that route.  Ask why work can't be done from home?  (Obviously this might entail some risk depending how horrible the charity is).

If she decides to sit it out until April I'd wait until a couple of weeks or so before expiry until she asks if they plan to extend it - I'd want to give them as little time to react as possible - unless she's desperate to continue working there (doesn't sound like it!) or wants some certainty.

If she decides to let the contract run down I'd be inclined to become as awkward, challenging and obstructive as possible without giving them enough ammo to sack me - but this obviously carries a risk.

A wise man told me many years ago never to work for a charity.  They have distorted priorities as employers.

Sandtree

kiteboywales said:
so shes had enough now so the question is really at the end of her contract should she give the 2months notice that they require? Or do you leave it until the contract ends naturally and if they come with a new contract do you just turn it down at that point?

They are very sly and she wants to leave the place without them claiming they sacked her or that she resigned

The two months notice is only required if she wishes to leave before the end of her current contract or if she has already signed an extension. Assuming she's not agreed to an extension and is willing to ride out the rest of the term the contract naturally concludes on the end date without either side having to do anything else. 

As an FTC you are free to accept, reject or renegotiate terms if they offer an extension... I've certain experience of horrible working environments suddenly become acceptable to an FTC when a notable pay increase is offered to retain them.

kiteboywales

Thanks again everyone - she handed her notice in (and is happy) - and given them 8 weeks notice as is stated in her contract 
Its just not worth the grief 
Correct about the distorted view of employees ------ thats 100% correct - totally wrong the way they treat employees 
I think its put her off working for any charities in future tbh - it was too small scale anyway for her dealing with people laptops and stuff when her job was certainly not advertised as that

Brynsam

juraj.kecso said:

She can also resign with immediate effect if she finds the situation too much. Where an employee resigns with immediate effect  they would be in theory in breach of contract, but the likelihood of any action by the company is very close to zero. Any reference from them would only say that she resigned. 

Not if the (former) employer chose to include details of the fact someone resigned without notice.

Mickey666

"They are very sly and she wants to leave the place without them claiming they sacked her or that she resigned"
"Thanks for any advice - its that bad a place to work for that she would rather be out of work - even during these times"

If it's really that bad and the managers really are that bad and she really would rather be out of work then just sign off as being sick.  No need to resign and give 2 months notice and no need to just walk out - just say she is sick and is too ill to work.  Can self-certify illness for 4 days (I think) after that go back for a day before going sick again.  Or call her GP and get signed off work . . . make up something vague, the GP appointment will likely be telephone only anyway so they won;t be able to really check.  Back ache is always a good excuse and difficult for GPs to pin down.

No, it's not really honest but if the managers are being so awful then perhaps they deserve it?  Maybe after a few weeks they will be begging her to return, at which point she'll have more leverage to lay down some of her own terms.  If they don't, well so what?  Take some more sick leave - they can't sack her for being sick, especially if signed-off by a GP.  Should be able to string things out until her contract expires naturally.

General_Grant

Mickey666 said:

"They are very sly and she wants to leave the place without them claiming they sacked her or that she resigned"
"Thanks for any advice - its that bad a place to work for that she would rather be out of work - even during these times"

If it's really that bad and the managers really are that bad and she really would rather be out of work then just sign off as being sick.  No need to resign and give 2 months notice and no need to just walk out - just say she is sick and is too ill to work.  Can self-certify illness for 4 days (I think) after that go back for a day before going sick again.  Or call her GP and get signed off work . . . make up something vague, the GP appointment will likely be telephone only anyway so they won;t be able to really check.  Back ache is always a good excuse and difficult for GPs to pin down.

No, it's not really honest but if the managers are being so awful then perhaps they deserve it?  Maybe after a few weeks they will be begging her to return, at which point she'll have more leverage to lay down some of her own terms.  If they don't, well so what?  Take some more sick leave - they can't sack her for being sick, especially if signed-off by a GP.  Should be able to string things out until her contract expires naturally.

For SSP, can self-certify for up to 7 days (and that includes days when you wouldn't normally work, like weekends).  But employers could ask for a doctor's note from Day1 if they wished.
(The 4 days are the first 4 days when you don't receive SSP - and periods of sickness absence can link and it is only the first 7 days that can be self-certified.)

Gavin83

Mickey666 said:

"They are very sly and she wants to leave the place without them claiming they sacked her or that she resigned"
"Thanks for any advice - its that bad a place to work for that she would rather be out of work - even during these times"

If it's really that bad and the managers really are that bad and she really would rather be out of work then just sign off as being sick.  No need to resign and give 2 months notice and no need to just walk out - just say she is sick and is too ill to work.  Can self-certify illness for 4 days (I think) after that go back for a day before going sick again.  Or call her GP and get signed off work . . . make up something vague, the GP appointment will likely be telephone only anyway so they won;t be able to really check.  Back ache is always a good excuse and difficult for GPs to pin down.

No, it's not really honest but if the managers are being so awful then perhaps they deserve it?  Maybe after a few weeks they will be begging her to return, at which point she'll have more leverage to lay down some of her own terms.  If they don't, well so what?  Take some more sick leave - they can't sack her for being sick, especially if signed-off by a GP.  Should be able to string things out until her contract expires naturally.

So your advice is to waste the time of the NHS while they're in the middle of a pandemic?

Also while they can't technically sack her for being sick they can just sack her for no reason at all and then refuse to provide a reference. Personally I wouldn't want a lack of reference from my last job when I'd been there nearly 2 years but it would be up for the OP to decide how much of a problem that was.

Thrugelmir

kiteboywales said:

I think its put her off working for any charities in future tbh - it was too small scale anyway for her dealing with people laptops and stuff when her job was certainly not advertised as that

Can come as a culture shock after 20 years in a large corporate organisation to work somewhere totally different. Clock it up to experience. Horses for courses.