CGT - Shares and Property

Double_Fault_Blues

At some point in the future I will sell my BTL property which I have owned for a number of years. I will make a substantial 6 figure capital gain. I also have substantial capital losses on shares (which have been logged in my self assessments).
Will I be able to offset the share losses against property gain to reduce my exposure to CGT?
Thanks

[Deleted User]

In a word - Yes!

macman

I have a similar situation. If the share loss has already been reported and logged by HMRC (so it falls within tax year 20/21), and the property  gain is also reported within the current tax year (property sale is expected to complete later this month), then will the bill sent by HMRC automatically include the offset? Or will the gross amount need to be repaid and then the difference reclaimed via self-assessment at the end of the tax year?

The reason I'm asking is that I've looked at the property gain submission form online, and it makes no provision for declaring losses from the current tax year-only those from tax year 19/20 or earlier years.

[Deleted User]

macman said:

I have a similar situation. If the share loss has already been reported and logged by HMRC (so it falls within tax year 20/21), and the property  gain is also reported within the current tax year (property sale is expected to complete later this month), then will the bill sent by HMRC automatically include the offset? Or will the gross amount need to be repaid and then the difference reclaimed via self-assessment at the end of the tax year?

The reason I'm asking is that I've looked at the property gain submission form online, and it makes no provision for declaring losses from the current tax year-only those from tax year 19/20 or earlier years.

When you prepare the tax return for 2020/21 you declare all capital disposals whether losses or gains. I don’t agree with your assertion that there is provision - see boxes 19 and 46 of the paper version here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/876796/SA108_English_Form_2020.pdf

macman

Thanks for your reply, but the property gain has to be reported and paid within within 30 days of completion, so cannot be delayed until submission of the 20/21 tax return.

The form I was referring to is the one on the link below, that allows you to do the calculation before logging into the account, and then upload it when you report the gain. If you go through this and enter dummy data then you will see that this only allows you to enter losses incurred in the tax years prior to 20/21, not in 20/21 itself.

I can only assume that HMRC has failed to update this form since the start of the current tax year.

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/calculate-your-capital-gains/resident/properties/

Jeremy535897

macman said:

Thanks for your reply, but the property gain has to be reported and paid within within 30 days of completion, so cannot be delayed until submission of the 20/21 tax return.

The form I was referring to is the one on the link below, that allows you to do the calculation before logging into the account, and then upload it when you report the gain. If you go through this and enter dummy data then you will see that this only allows you to enter losses incurred in the tax years prior to 20/21, not in 20/21 itself.

I can only assume that HMRC has failed to update this form since the start of the current tax year.

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/calculate-your-capital-gains/resident/properties/

I have never used this, but can you not now report multiple disposals at once, whether of property or otherwise, using this system?

[Deleted User]

Jeremy535897 said:

macman said:

Thanks for your reply, but the property gain has to be reported and paid within within 30 days of completion, so cannot be delayed until submission of the 20/21 tax return.

The form I was referring to is the one on the link below, that allows you to do the calculation before logging into the account, and then upload it when you report the gain. If you go through this and enter dummy data then you will see that this only allows you to enter losses incurred in the tax years prior to 20/21, not in 20/21 itself.

I can only assume that HMRC has failed to update this form since the start of the current tax year.

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/calculate-your-capital-gains/resident/properties/

I have never used this, but can you not now report multiple disposals at once, whether of property or otherwise, using this system?

I imagine that the question is not asked (just gone through it) is because losses are automatically set against gains in the same year. As you suggest, unless such losses are also declared the system will not utilise them

oldbikebloke

Jeremy535897 said:
I have never used this, but can you not now report multiple disposals at once, whether of property or otherwise, using this system?

the 30 day reporting process relates to property only (unless you are a non resident)

[Deleted User]

Jeremy535897 said:

macman said:

Thanks for your reply, but the property gain has to be reported and paid within within 30 days of completion, so cannot be delayed until submission of the 20/21 tax return.

The form I was referring to is the one on the link below, that allows you to do the calculation before logging into the account, and then upload it when you report the gain. If you go through this and enter dummy data then you will see that this only allows you to enter losses incurred in the tax years prior to 20/21, not in 20/21 itself.

I can only assume that HMRC has failed to update this form since the start of the current tax year.

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/calculate-your-capital-gains/resident/properties/

I have never used this, but can you not now report multiple disposals at once, whether of property or otherwise, using this system?

Had a look at it again - it appears that it is only meant to be a guide to ascertain projected capital gains liability on a disposal - similar to, for example, ‘check what state pension you are likely to receive’. Nothing more, nothing less.

macman

Jeremy535897 said:

macman said:

Thanks for your reply, but the property gain has to be reported and paid within within 30 days of completion, so cannot be delayed until submission of the 20/21 tax return.

The form I was referring to is the one on the link below, that allows you to do the calculation before logging into the account, and then upload it when you report the gain. If you go through this and enter dummy data then you will see that this only allows you to enter losses incurred in the tax years prior to 20/21, not in 20/21 itself.

I can only assume that HMRC has failed to update this form since the start of the current tax year.

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/calculate-your-capital-gains/resident/properties/

I have never used this, but can you not now report multiple disposals at once, whether of property or otherwise, using this system?

You can, but not on the same form, the property disposal channel is for that sole purpose only.

If you are, for example, reporting a disposal of 4 tranches of shares at a loss, you need to do the calculation for one, upload it, then add the next, and so on. Each share generates a separate report, a separate loss, and a separate reference.

macman

purdyoaten2 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

macman said:

Thanks for your reply, but the property gain has to be reported and paid within within 30 days of completion, so cannot be delayed until submission of the 20/21 tax return.

The form I was referring to is the one on the link below, that allows you to do the calculation before logging into the account, and then upload it when you report the gain. If you go through this and enter dummy data then you will see that this only allows you to enter losses incurred in the tax years prior to 20/21, not in 20/21 itself.

I can only assume that HMRC has failed to update this form since the start of the current tax year.

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/calculate-your-capital-gains/resident/properties/

I have never used this, but can you not now report multiple disposals at once, whether of property or otherwise, using this system?

Had a look at it again - it appears that it is only meant to be a guide to ascertain projected capital gains liability on a disposal - similar to, for example, ‘check what state pension you are likely to receive’. Nothing more, nothing less.

May be, but the tax year question is quite specific, and the implication is that, should you agree with the calculation it produces, then you upload it at the time of reporting the gain in order to  'show your workings'.

I got through to HMRC and they denied that the date field was out of date until I went through it with them while on the call. They then suggested that you use the field for 19/20 to generate the form, and add a note when uploading it to state that the losses were actually incurred in 20/21. In other words, bodge it...

Ultimately, what matters is that the losses already registered are picked up elsewhere in the system and set against the final bill that they generate, rather than having to be reclaimed at a date beyond the 30 days. I'm not entirely confident that this will happen.