Investment Returns 2020

Thrugelmir

Including reinvested dividends I'm up 37.7% over the past year.  Has been an exceptional year of returns. Been a year for active trading and good fortune in these volatile markets. Nor has it been a comfortable year, as the recovery from the bottom point of the year back in March is 48.6%. At which point I was 65% cash. Having liquidated a number of holdings over a period from early February.  Cannot recall a period of time when I've traded so often. As prices bounced around and plenty of opportunties arose to pocket gains in a matter of days.

Time to hang up the boots and dial back the risk exposure. As I'm not expecting 2021 to offer the same opportunities. Cautiously optimistic though a small retrenchment in markets wouldn't come as a surprise. 

mark55man

well played @Thrugelmir

Cus

Deleted_User said:

morrow56 said:

Is there an easy way to calculate how my SIPP with HL performed percentage wise, overall since Jan 1 last year to Dec 31??

thanks in advance

The correct way:

1. Money weighted return: use XIRR function in Excel.  You need values at the start and end of the period and cash flows in and out.  This is the kind of return you are actually achieving. 

2. Time weighted return: use the spreadsheet in here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns You will need values at the start of every month as well as what you need for 1.  Time weighted return is what you should be using to compare against benchmarks and returns of others. 

3. You should always look at returns for your overall portfolio in all accounts, including cash, ISAs, savings, SIPP, etc.  Otherwise you are kidding yourself. Someone could be aggressively trading in one account reporting a 100% return on 5% of his money while 95% of his money is getting 0.5% interest.  

Keep in mind that annual values self reported by chatroom users are a) meaningless and b) usually wrong.  For returns to be meaningful they need to span a meaningful period of time, eg 10 years, although longer is better.  

Meaningless yes. Why would longer term returns be any more meaningful?  The only benefit of threads like this is for people to compare apples to oranges and get wrongly disappointed or pleased.
I don't know why values would be usually wrong though. Not exactly hard to calculate a  % change in something. Unless you believe that numbers are being made up? 

Prism

Cus said:

Deleted_User said:

morrow56 said:

Is there an easy way to calculate how my SIPP with HL performed percentage wise, overall since Jan 1 last year to Dec 31??

thanks in advance

The correct way:

1. Money weighted return: use XIRR function in Excel.  You need values at the start and end of the period and cash flows in and out.  This is the kind of return you are actually achieving. 

2. Time weighted return: use the spreadsheet in here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns You will need values at the start of every month as well as what you need for 1.  Time weighted return is what you should be using to compare against benchmarks and returns of others. 

3. You should always look at returns for your overall portfolio in all accounts, including cash, ISAs, savings, SIPP, etc.  Otherwise you are kidding yourself. Someone could be aggressively trading in one account reporting a 100% return on 5% of his money while 95% of his money is getting 0.5% interest.  

Keep in mind that annual values self reported by chatroom users are a) meaningless and b) usually wrong.  For returns to be meaningful they need to span a meaningful period of time, eg 10 years, although longer is better.  

Meaningless yes. Why would longer term returns be any more meaningful?  The only benefit of threads like this is for people to compare apples to oranges and get wrongly disappointed or pleased.
I don't know why values would be usually wrong though. Not exactly hard to calculate a  % change in something. Unless you believe that numbers are being made up? 

I don't think people make it up but I also don't think most people know how to calculate their proper returns (time or money) especially when they are selling out and buying back in, or contributing monthly or adhoc to their pension or ISA.

Mistermeaner

Up around 16 - 20% which I'm happy with (across 3 pensions and 2 Lisa's for me and partner)

Got quite a bit of vls100 which dragged but as we're 15 years away from crystalising I would say we've been buying at good value ......

Overall just pleased i saw the crash happen and 10000s wiped off the screen but did the right thing by buying more with surprise lump sum 

[Deleted User]

Cus said:

Deleted_User said:

morrow56 said:

Is there an easy way to calculate how my SIPP with HL performed percentage wise, overall since Jan 1 last year to Dec 31??

thanks in advance

The correct way:

1. Money weighted return: use XIRR function in Excel.  You need values at the start and end of the period and cash flows in and out.  This is the kind of return you are actually achieving. 

2. Time weighted return: use the spreadsheet in here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns You will need values at the start of every month as well as what you need for 1.  Time weighted return is what you should be using to compare against benchmarks and returns of others. 

3. You should always look at returns for your overall portfolio in all accounts, including cash, ISAs, savings, SIPP, etc.  Otherwise you are kidding yourself. Someone could be aggressively trading in one account reporting a 100% return on 5% of his money while 95% of his money is getting 0.5% interest.  

Keep in mind that annual values self reported by chatroom users are a) meaningless and b) usually wrong.  For returns to be meaningful they need to span a meaningful period of time, eg 10 years, although longer is better.  

Meaningless yes. Why would longer term returns be any more meaningful?  The only benefit of threads like this is for people to compare apples to oranges and get wrongly disappointed or pleased.
I don't know why values would be usually wrong though. Not exactly hard to calculate a  % change in something. Unless you believe that numbers are being made up? 

Percent change is very easy to calculate. Has nothing to do with “return” though. Which is also easy to calculate.  SISO. 

The other important factor to consider is that nobody is reporting losses in a year when FTSE 100 had the worst year since 2008 and UK property experienced a drop.  

Thrugelmir

Deleted_User said:

Cus said:

Deleted_User said:

morrow56 said:

Is there an easy way to calculate how my SIPP with HL performed percentage wise, overall since Jan 1 last year to Dec 31??

thanks in advance

The correct way:

1. Money weighted return: use XIRR function in Excel.  You need values at the start and end of the period and cash flows in and out.  This is the kind of return you are actually achieving. 

2. Time weighted return: use the spreadsheet in here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns You will need values at the start of every month as well as what you need for 1.  Time weighted return is what you should be using to compare against benchmarks and returns of others. 

3. You should always look at returns for your overall portfolio in all accounts, including cash, ISAs, savings, SIPP, etc.  Otherwise you are kidding yourself. Someone could be aggressively trading in one account reporting a 100% return on 5% of his money while 95% of his money is getting 0.5% interest.  

Keep in mind that annual values self reported by chatroom users are a) meaningless and b) usually wrong.  For returns to be meaningful they need to span a meaningful period of time, eg 10 years, although longer is better.  

Meaningless yes. Why would longer term returns be any more meaningful?  The only benefit of threads like this is for people to compare apples to oranges and get wrongly disappointed or pleased.
I don't know why values would be usually wrong though. Not exactly hard to calculate a  % change in something. Unless you believe that numbers are being made up? 

Percent change is very easy to calculate. Has nothing to do with “return” though. Which is also easy to calculate.  SISO. 

The other important factor to consider is that nobody is reporting losses in a year when FTSE 100 had the worst year since 2008 and UK property experienced a drop.  

The ability to invest internationally in one form or another has been possible for decades. Choice of UK property investment is somewhat more diverse than you suggest. Not all types of property investment faced drops. May explain the overall positivity of the reporting. 

darkidoe

I have a portfolio return of about 6.9% in 2020 and a personal annual return of 9.4%.

Seeing at an FTSE All World Index had a return of approximately 12% in 2020. My returns didn't seem so great to me. I guess mainly because of my tilt towards the VHYL which had a slight negative performance this 2020.

Food for thought for dividend investors. Might be better to go with an all world tracker.

Prism

Deleted_User said:

Cus said:

Deleted_User said:

morrow56 said:

Is there an easy way to calculate how my SIPP with HL performed percentage wise, overall since Jan 1 last year to Dec 31??

thanks in advance

The correct way:

1. Money weighted return: use XIRR function in Excel.  You need values at the start and end of the period and cash flows in and out.  This is the kind of return you are actually achieving. 

2. Time weighted return: use the spreadsheet in here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns You will need values at the start of every month as well as what you need for 1.  Time weighted return is what you should be using to compare against benchmarks and returns of others. 

3. You should always look at returns for your overall portfolio in all accounts, including cash, ISAs, savings, SIPP, etc.  Otherwise you are kidding yourself. Someone could be aggressively trading in one account reporting a 100% return on 5% of his money while 95% of his money is getting 0.5% interest.  

Keep in mind that annual values self reported by chatroom users are a) meaningless and b) usually wrong.  For returns to be meaningful they need to span a meaningful period of time, eg 10 years, although longer is better.  

Meaningless yes. Why would longer term returns be any more meaningful?  The only benefit of threads like this is for people to compare apples to oranges and get wrongly disappointed or pleased.
I don't know why values would be usually wrong though. Not exactly hard to calculate a  % change in something. Unless you believe that numbers are being made up? 

Percent change is very easy to calculate. Has nothing to do with “return” though. Which is also easy to calculate.  SISO. 

The other important factor to consider is that nobody is reporting losses in a year when FTSE 100 had the worst year since 2008 and UK property experienced a drop.  

I guess those that have posted do not have major allocations to the FTSE 100 or UK property, or if they do they are more selective. My UK property holdings are up 6% and 17% and my two UK funds 6.5% and 53%, neither of which invest in the FTSE.

[Deleted User]

Prism said:

Deleted_User said:

Cus said:

Deleted_User said:

morrow56 said:

Is there an easy way to calculate how my SIPP with HL performed percentage wise, overall since Jan 1 last year to Dec 31??

thanks in advance

The correct way:

1. Money weighted return: use XIRR function in Excel.  You need values at the start and end of the period and cash flows in and out.  This is the kind of return you are actually achieving. 

2. Time weighted return: use the spreadsheet in here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns You will need values at the start of every month as well as what you need for 1.  Time weighted return is what you should be using to compare against benchmarks and returns of others. 

3. You should always look at returns for your overall portfolio in all accounts, including cash, ISAs, savings, SIPP, etc.  Otherwise you are kidding yourself. Someone could be aggressively trading in one account reporting a 100% return on 5% of his money while 95% of his money is getting 0.5% interest.  

Keep in mind that annual values self reported by chatroom users are a) meaningless and b) usually wrong.  For returns to be meaningful they need to span a meaningful period of time, eg 10 years, although longer is better.  

Meaningless yes. Why would longer term returns be any more meaningful?  The only benefit of threads like this is for people to compare apples to oranges and get wrongly disappointed or pleased.
I don't know why values would be usually wrong though. Not exactly hard to calculate a  % change in something. Unless you believe that numbers are being made up? 

Percent change is very easy to calculate. Has nothing to do with “return” though. Which is also easy to calculate.  SISO. 

The other important factor to consider is that nobody is reporting losses in a year when FTSE 100 had the worst year since 2008 and UK property experienced a drop.  

I guess those that have posted do not have major allocations to the FTSE 100 or UK property, or if they do they are more selective. My UK property holdings are up 6% and 17% and my two UK funds 6.5% and 53%, neither of which invest in the FTSE.

I guess that people who experience losses don’t tend to boast as much as us.  Because someone has to be on the other end of all those wonderful returns.  Perhaps its an unlucky international investor who is grossly overweight in British property and stocks.