Are all bus companies required by law to carry under aged no matter what?

deadendwaterfall

If so, I understand it'll be 'duty of care' coming into play, or is it down to individual bus companies polices? I understand bus companies are at liberty to ban who they like from traveling with them and individual bus drivers can order people off the bus that they are driving, however is there some 'duty of care' under some sort of law where all bus companies MUST carry the under aged at all times, not just during school times, even if they are chavs causing distress and annoyance to other passengers?

I remember once I had ongoing issues with a gang of teenagers who were still in school and they had chav like attitudes about them and them winding me up was tolerable at first, but there's only so much anyone could take. One Saturday evening on my way back from a supermarket, I was on a bus and I never touched any of them, just merely growled at them to f off and the driver sharply stops the bus, not even at a bus stop and orders ME off the bus, and at no point did I ever get abusive, just calmly and politely asked why I should be the one to have to get off and not them, and he said he can't make them get off, it's their right to be on the bus and I have no rights in comparison. Not wanting a confrontation, I did as I was told, with these chavs gloating at me as I left. I then called a taxi to get me the rest of the way home with my heavy shopping, plus the fact it was raining very heavy. 

The following Saturday night, I attempted to flag the bus down as I was going shopping again and I could see it was the same driver as last Saturday and he just ignores me and as the bus goes past me, these same chavs are on again and they are shouting at me in a mocking way through the open window tops. 

Fast forward to more recently and I was riding on this route last Saturday night, but with more civilized passengers and a very decent driver and this issue came up in conversation, and when I asked her if these chavs really do have more rights than myself to travel, or if it's just the driver being awkward, she said, unfortunately, yes, but wouldn't tell me if it was company policy or by law. 

And before anybody here makes any snarky comments, questioning how old I am, how could I let them get to me so easily etc etc, no, I'm not telling anyone here how old I am, but I am much older than they are and I tolerated their (the chavs) ratty behavior for months. 

giraffe69

What happened when you queried the apparent policy with those who run the bus company and complained about the actions of the driver?

deadendwaterfall

giraffe69 said:

What happened when you queried the apparent policy with those who run the bus company and complained about the actions of the driver?

They defended the actions of the driver saying he is perfectly entitled to do what he did to me. 

tacpot12

As far as I can see the relevant legislation is contained within the Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990. This does not require PSV drivers to carry children irrespective of their behaviour. It does not make a special case for children - they are expected to adhere to all the regulations on conduct that adults are required to adopt. It also requires drivers to take reasonable steps to see that all passengers comply with the conduct regulations.

However the operator may have policies that allow the driver some latitude in allowing a lower standard of behaviour from children than adults. The operator's policy will almost certainly not allow a child to be forced off the bus between stops, in inclement weather, or if the child is younger than a certain age. Ultimately the driver is the responsible adult in charge of the bus and the service it is delivering to all passengers, but they are caught between a rock and a hard place as operators will not support their drivers unless the child's behaviour is clearly dangerous AND caught on video (regardless of what their policy says). The incident needs to be caught on video for when the child's parent comes whinging to them - parents these days will not admit what their children are capable of because they are embarrassed. In the old days, the parents would apologise to the bus company, make the child apologise to the bus driver, and give the child an earful about bad behaviour and inconveniencing the parent, and the other passengers. As a child, it was not something you would want to experience twice. 

Kids in a group will open try to get an (over-)reaction from an adult if they sense the adult is losing patience. You would have been completely within your rights to tell the children off. It really is better than someone instructs them on how to behave; but you can take the  horse to the  water, but you can't make it learn, so you have to be ready to sit fuming when they play up more. If you shout at kids, you need to be prepared for the driver to side with them. I would shout at the kids and happily pay the taxi fare if the bus driver kicked me off, because they would have least had been told off, but you can't expect kids to learn when they get mixed messages. I can imaging the kids telling their parents gleefully that you, and not they, were kicked off the bus, and the parents dying inside because their children had been so badly behaved as to cause another passenger to tell them off in public. 

deadendwaterfall

tacpot12 said:

As far as I can see the relevant legislation is contained within the Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990. This does not require PSV drivers to carry children irrespective of their behaviour. It does not make a special case for children - they are expected to adhere to all the regulations on conduct that adults are required to adopt. It also requires drivers to take reasonable steps to see that all passengers comply with the conduct regulations.

However the operator may have policies that allow the driver some latitude in allowing a lower standard of behaviour from children than adults. The operator's policy will almost certainly not allow a child to be forced off the bus between stops, in inclement weather, or if the child is younger than a certain age. Ultimately the driver is the responsible adult in charge of the bus and the service it is delivering to all passengers, but they are caught between a rock and a hard place as operators will not support their drivers unless the child's behaviour is clearly dangerous AND caught on video (regardless of what their policy says). The incident needs to be caught on video for when the child's parent comes whinging to them - parents these days will not admit what their children are capable of because they are embarrassed. In the old days, the parents would apologise to the bus company, make the child apologise to the bus driver, and give the child an earful about bad behaviour and inconveniencing the parent, and the other passengers. As a child, it was not something you would want to experience twice. 

Kids in a group will open try to get an (over-)reaction from an adult if they sense the adult is losing patience. You would have been completely within your rights to tell the children off. It really is better than someone instructs them on how to behave; but you can take the  horse to the  water, but you can't make it learn, so you have to be ready to sit fuming when they play up more. If you shout at kids, you need to be prepared for the driver to side with them. I would shout at the kids and happily pay the taxi fare if the bus driver kicked me off, because they would have least had been told off, but you can't expect kids to learn when they get mixed messages. I can imaging the kids telling their parents gleefully that you, and not they, were kicked off the bus, and the parents dying inside because their children had been so badly behaved as to cause another passenger to tell them off in public. 

Highly unlikely when it comes to at least two of them, their mum threatened to unleash her bull mastiff onto me if she saw me again, (they live on the same road as I do).

jonesMUFCforever

deadendwaterfall said:

tacpot12 said:

As far as I can see the relevant legislation is contained within the Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990. This does not require PSV drivers to carry children irrespective of their behaviour. It does not make a special case for children - they are expected to adhere to all the regulations on conduct that adults are required to adopt. It also requires drivers to take reasonable steps to see that all passengers comply with the conduct regulations.

However the operator may have policies that allow the driver some latitude in allowing a lower standard of behaviour from children than adults. The operator's policy will almost certainly not allow a child to be forced off the bus between stops, in inclement weather, or if the child is younger than a certain age. Ultimately the driver is the responsible adult in charge of the bus and the service it is delivering to all passengers, but they are caught between a rock and a hard place as operators will not support their drivers unless the child's behaviour is clearly dangerous AND caught on video (regardless of what their policy says). The incident needs to be caught on video for when the child's parent comes whinging to them - parents these days will not admit what their children are capable of because they are embarrassed. In the old days, the parents would apologise to the bus company, make the child apologise to the bus driver, and give the child an earful about bad behaviour and inconveniencing the parent, and the other passengers. As a child, it was not something you would want to experience twice. 

Kids in a group will open try to get an (over-)reaction from an adult if they sense the adult is losing patience. You would have been completely within your rights to tell the children off. It really is better than someone instructs them on how to behave; but you can take the  horse to the  water, but you can't make it learn, so you have to be ready to sit fuming when they play up more. If you shout at kids, you need to be prepared for the driver to side with them. I would shout at the kids and happily pay the taxi fare if the bus driver kicked me off, because they would have least had been told off, but you can't expect kids to learn when they get mixed messages. I can imaging the kids telling their parents gleefully that you, and not they, were kicked off the bus, and the parents dying inside because their children had been so badly behaved as to cause another passenger to tell them off in public. 

Highly unlikely when it comes to at least two of them, their mum threatened to unleash her bull mastiff onto me if she saw me again, (they live on the same road as I do).

That is threatning behaviour and I would have called the police.

deadendwaterfall

jonesMUFCforever said:

deadendwaterfall said:

tacpot12 said:

As far as I can see the relevant legislation is contained within the Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990. This does not require PSV drivers to carry children irrespective of their behaviour. It does not make a special case for children - they are expected to adhere to all the regulations on conduct that adults are required to adopt. It also requires drivers to take reasonable steps to see that all passengers comply with the conduct regulations.

However the operator may have policies that allow the driver some latitude in allowing a lower standard of behaviour from children than adults. The operator's policy will almost certainly not allow a child to be forced off the bus between stops, in inclement weather, or if the child is younger than a certain age. Ultimately the driver is the responsible adult in charge of the bus and the service it is delivering to all passengers, but they are caught between a rock and a hard place as operators will not support their drivers unless the child's behaviour is clearly dangerous AND caught on video (regardless of what their policy says). The incident needs to be caught on video for when the child's parent comes whinging to them - parents these days will not admit what their children are capable of because they are embarrassed. In the old days, the parents would apologise to the bus company, make the child apologise to the bus driver, and give the child an earful about bad behaviour and inconveniencing the parent, and the other passengers. As a child, it was not something you would want to experience twice. 

Kids in a group will open try to get an (over-)reaction from an adult if they sense the adult is losing patience. You would have been completely within your rights to tell the children off. It really is better than someone instructs them on how to behave; but you can take the  horse to the  water, but you can't make it learn, so you have to be ready to sit fuming when they play up more. If you shout at kids, you need to be prepared for the driver to side with them. I would shout at the kids and happily pay the taxi fare if the bus driver kicked me off, because they would have least had been told off, but you can't expect kids to learn when they get mixed messages. I can imaging the kids telling their parents gleefully that you, and not they, were kicked off the bus, and the parents dying inside because their children had been so badly behaved as to cause another passenger to tell them off in public. 

Highly unlikely when it comes to at least two of them, their mum threatened to unleash her bull mastiff onto me if she saw me again, (they live on the same road as I do).

That is threatning behaviour and I would have called the police.

They aren't interested, despite reporting it several times. 

FaceHead

The police aren't interested for the same reason the bus driver isn't. Regardless of who has the 'most right' to be on the bus or set a bull mastiff on someone it's easier for the bus driver and police to side with the chavs. Essentially you need to be more of a pain in the --- and less of a pushover. These people just want an easy life - or as they see it, can ignore you and get on with something more pressing. 

Have you escalated your complaint to the bus company when it was met with an unsatisfactory response? Have you demanded a refund for your fare when put off the bus without justification? You can escalate such a complaint to Transport Focus/London Travel watch depending on where you are. Have you continued to report the dangerous dog and threatening woman to the police and council? Have you complained to the police about their lack of action, as you consider your safety in danger due to being threaten with actual bodily harm by a neighbor?

If you want to turn the other cheek you can do that, and that's when the police and bus driver are hoping you'll do, as that is easier for them. If you don't want to, you don't have to. 

deadendwaterfall

FaceHead said:

The police aren't interested for the same reason the bus driver isn't. Regardless of who has the 'most right' to be on the bus or set a bull mastiff on someone it's easier for the bus driver and police to side with the chavs. Essentially you need to be more of a pain in the --- and less of a pushover. These people just want an easy life - or as they see it, can ignore you and get on with something more pressing. 

Have you escalated your complaint to the bus company when it was met with an unsatisfactory response? Have you demanded a refund for your fare when put off the bus without justification? You can escalate such a complaint to Transport Focus/London Travel watch depending on where you are. Have you continued to report the dangerous dog and threatening woman to the police and council? Have you complained to the police about their lack of action, as you consider your safety in danger due to being threaten with actual bodily harm by a neighbor?

If you want to turn the other cheek you can do that, and that's when the police and bus driver are hoping you'll do, as that is easier for them. If you don't want to, you don't have to. 

I tried complaining but they sided with the driver. 

yorkie2

This is in Scunthorpe, right?

elsien

You were asked to leave the bus for swearing at other passengers. Although you go on to say that “at no point did I ever get abusive.”  What do you call telling them to eff off if it’s not abusive, whatever the provocation, given that you are the adult in the situation.