Which Non-AJ Bell SIPP Platform

Albermarle

Chickereeeee said:

Alexland said:

Chickereeeee said:

- i moved from Fidelity a few years back because of the inflexible way they handled non-funds, their awful way of charging fees per month rather than quarter, and taking fees by selling holdings rather than from income (among other things)

We have Fidelity SIPPs and don't recognise this comment. If income has added to the cash balance they would use that before selling down holdings (they have never sold ours down) but obviously if there is insufficient cash leading up to the fees being charged there would have to be a "point of no return" on which they started selling down holdings to ensure there is sufficient cash in the account to pay fees. It sounds like you might have been trying to run the account with an insufficient cash float to cover the fees? Seems a shame to rule them out because of that as they can be very good value in the right circumstances. With quarterly divi reinvestment on a static lump sum ETF ours are costing £51 pa each.

One of the things that puts me off the II SIPP (in addition to the much higher charges for our near comatose usage pattern) is that 50% of the total ongoing charge (the non-SIPP charge covering ISAs etc) cannot deducted from within the SIPP account with associated tax benefits. We wouldn't get any benefit from the other inclusive account types as it would be too much money in one provider as the SIPP accounts are already many times over the FSCS limits.

I had an ISA, rather th a SIPP, set to pay out income. Fidelity would pay out the income, then take fees by selling my largest holding, as there was zero cash balance. As it was an ISA, i could not add cash, even if i had wanted to. Twelve x fees, plus twelve x forced 'sells' per year, multiplied by the number of accounts i had with them got a bit wearing to track....
Aj Bell, once per quarter, deduct fees from income, and are prepared to wait for next divi if  no cash balance.

Fidelity now have a cash management account , separate from ISA and SIPP . They look there first for any fees due and you can transfer into it from ISA , or add funds directly to it from your bank account. 

Alexland

Chickereeeee said:

I had an ISA, rather th a SIPP, set to pay out income. Fidelity would pay out the income, then take fees by selling my largest holding, as there was zero cash balance. As it was an ISA, i could not add cash, even if i had wanted to. Twelve x fees, plus twelve x forced 'sells' per year, multiplied by the number of accounts i had with them got a bit wearing to track....

Aah yes the trick would be to not fully invest the ISA allowance and leave enough cash to cover until you can next contribute. Or use the Cash Management Account as above which would be fine for an ISA but not as efficient for a SIPP (they do an automatic transfer from our SIPP to the empty CMA each month)

Chickereeeee said:

Aj Bell, once per quarter, deduct fees from income, and are prepared to wait for next divi if  no cash balance.

AJ Bell just sent an email to say fees are changing to monthly but the fee caps are increasing so our LISAs are each going to cost £12 pa more. Thankfully our cash float is big enough to cover the risk of increased fees without having to sell anything down although they also let you pay the fees from another account if requested.

Chickereeeee

Alexland said:

AJ Bell just sent an email to say fees are changing to monthly but the fee caps are increasing so our LISAs are each going to cost £12 pa more. Thankfully our cash float is big enough to cover the risk of increased fees without having to sell anything down although they also let you pay the fees from another account if requested.

I was just about to comment that I received the same thing. A few hours after my post.
I hate it when they make it so OBVIOUS that 'they' are watching me.....

coyrls

LHW99 said:

coyrls said:

Alexland said:

Chickereeeee said:

- i moved from Fidelity a few years back because of the inflexible way they handled non-funds, their awful way of charging fees per month rather than quarter, and taking fees by selling holdings rather than from income (among other things)

One of the things that puts me off the II SIPP (in addition to the much higher charges for our near comatose usage pattern) is that 50% of the total ongoing charge (the non-SIPP charge covering ISAs etc) cannot deducted from within the SIPP account with associated tax benefits. We wouldn't get any benefit from the other inclusive account types as it would be too much money in one provider as the SIPP accounts are already many times over the FSCS limits.

I am at II and all my charges get deducted from within the SIPP.

Are you an ex-TD or ex-Allieance customer? I have been with II some years, but they wouldn't take charges from the SIPP last time I asked.

I am an ex-Alliance Trust customer but they key seems to be if you have other accounts with ii or not.  If you only have a SIPP account, the Service Plan payment will be take from your SIPP account, see https://help.ii.co.uk/system/templates/selfservice/ii/help/customer/locale/en-GB/portal/402800000001013/content/Auth-5281/Paying-your-Service-Plan-monthly-subscription?_ga=2.82375199.829859995.1606763346-1781491934.1606763346

Hold a SIPP only

1. Available cash
2. If this is not enough available cash to pay the full/remaining part of the fee we will contact you to pay the outstanding amount.

LHW99

coyrls said:

LHW99 said:

coyrls said:

Alexland said:

Chickereeeee said:

- i moved from Fidelity a few years back because of the inflexible way they handled non-funds, their awful way of charging fees per month rather than quarter, and taking fees by selling holdings rather than from income (among other things)

One of the things that puts me off the II SIPP (in addition to the much higher charges for our near comatose usage pattern) is that 50% of the total ongoing charge (the non-SIPP charge covering ISAs etc) cannot deducted from within the SIPP account with associated tax benefits. We wouldn't get any benefit from the other inclusive account types as it would be too much money in one provider as the SIPP accounts are already many times over the FSCS limits.

I am at II and all my charges get deducted from within the SIPP.

Are you an ex-TD or ex-Allieance customer? I have been with II some years, but they wouldn't take charges from the SIPP last time I asked.

I am an ex-Alliance Trust customer but they key seems to be if you have other accounts with ii or not.  If you only have a SIPP account, the Service Plan payment will be take from your SIPP account, see https://help.ii.co.uk/system/templates/selfservice/ii/help/customer/locale/en-GB/portal/402800000001013/content/Auth-5281/Paying-your-Service-Plan-monthly-subscription?_ga=2.82375199.829859995.1606763346-1781491934.1606763346

Hold a SIPP only

1. Available cash
2. If this is not enough available cash to pay the full/remaining part of the fee we will contact you to pay the outstanding amount.

Yes, I have seen that, but it means that they would take the cash from the ISA rather than the SIPP (don't use the trading account except for moving money across from ISA to SIPP). II seem to have no mechanism to allow payment directly from the SIPP, which AJBell (I think) did used to have when I was with them.

Chickereeeee

Yes, I have seen that, but it means that they would take the cash from the ISA rather than the SIPP (don't use the trading account except for moving money across from ISA to SIPP). II seem to have no mechanism to allow payment directly from the SIPP, which AJBell (I think) did used to have when I was with them.

AJ Bell take Fees from the small amount of income my SIPP is currently generating (mostly Acc or growth)

garmeg

Chickereeeee said:

Alexland said:

Chickereeeee said:

- i moved from Fidelity a few years back because of the inflexible way they handled non-funds, their awful way of charging fees per month rather than quarter, and taking fees by selling holdings rather than from income (among other things)

We have Fidelity SIPPs and don't recognise this comment. If income has added to the cash balance they would use that before selling down holdings (they have never sold ours down) but obviously if there is insufficient cash leading up to the fees being charged there would have to be a "point of no return" on which they started selling down holdings to ensure there is sufficient cash in the account to pay fees. It sounds like you might have been trying to run the account with an insufficient cash float to cover the fees? Seems a shame to rule them out because of that as they can be very good value in the right circumstances. With quarterly divi reinvestment on a static lump sum ETF ours are costing £51 pa each.

One of the things that puts me off the II SIPP (in addition to the much higher charges for our near comatose usage pattern) is that 50% of the total ongoing charge (the non-SIPP charge covering ISAs etc) cannot deducted from within the SIPP account with associated tax benefits. We wouldn't get any benefit from the other inclusive account types as it would be too much money in one provider as the SIPP accounts are already many times over the FSCS limits.

I had an ISA, rather th a SIPP, set to pay out income. Fidelity would pay out the income, then take fees by selling my largest holding, as there was zero cash balance. As it was an ISA, i could not add cash, even if i had wanted to. Twelve x fees, plus twelve x forced 'sells' per year, multiplied by the number of accounts i had with them got a bit wearing to track....
Aj Bell, once per quarter, deduct fees from income, and are prepared to wait for next divi if  no cash balance.

Hargreaves Lansdown will take ISA fees from your fund and share account and not the ISA - even better.

£3.75 a month for a large portfolio of 37 investment trusts (trying to build a monthly income for retirement but it is still lumpy and currently being used to buy more IT shares).

Figures from www.theaic.co.uk

coyrls

garmeg said:

Chickereeeee said:

Alexland said:

Chickereeeee said:

- i moved from Fidelity a few years back because of the inflexible way they handled non-funds, their awful way of charging fees per month rather than quarter, and taking fees by selling holdings rather than from income (among other things)

We have Fidelity SIPPs and don't recognise this comment. If income has added to the cash balance they would use that before selling down holdings (they have never sold ours down) but obviously if there is insufficient cash leading up to the fees being charged there would have to be a "point of no return" on which they started selling down holdings to ensure there is sufficient cash in the account to pay fees. It sounds like you might have been trying to run the account with an insufficient cash float to cover the fees? Seems a shame to rule them out because of that as they can be very good value in the right circumstances. With quarterly divi reinvestment on a static lump sum ETF ours are costing £51 pa each.

One of the things that puts me off the II SIPP (in addition to the much higher charges for our near comatose usage pattern) is that 50% of the total ongoing charge (the non-SIPP charge covering ISAs etc) cannot deducted from within the SIPP account with associated tax benefits. We wouldn't get any benefit from the other inclusive account types as it would be too much money in one provider as the SIPP accounts are already many times over the FSCS limits.

I had an ISA, rather th a SIPP, set to pay out income. Fidelity would pay out the income, then take fees by selling my largest holding, as there was zero cash balance. As it was an ISA, i could not add cash, even if i had wanted to. Twelve x fees, plus twelve x forced 'sells' per year, multiplied by the number of accounts i had with them got a bit wearing to track....
Aj Bell, once per quarter, deduct fees from income, and are prepared to wait for next divi if  no cash balance.

Hargreaves Lansdown will take ISA fees from your fund and share account and not the ISA - even better.

The original requirement was for the payment to be made from untaxed money in a SIPP, which ii will only do if you only have a SIPP account.  II's preference is for a direct debit payment.  If you don't set up a direct debit they will take the money from your trading account, followed by your ISA but they will not take the money from your SIPP unless you only have a SIPP account, which is an odd restriction.

Mutton_Geoff

I asked them this question today and got a strangely worded reply:

We will only ever take fees from a SIPP account if it's a stand alone account, so while your trading account and ISA account are both linked to your SIPP, if you or we cancelled your direct debit instruction, the fees would still not come from your SIPP account.

LHW99

Mutton_Geoff said:

I asked them this question today and got a strangely worded reply:

We will only ever take fees from a SIPP account if it's a stand alone account, so while your trading account and ISA account are both linked to your SIPP, if you or we cancelled your direct debit instruction, the fees would still not come from your SIPP account.

coyrls said:

garmeg said:

Chickereeeee said:

Alexland said:

Chickereeeee said:

- i moved from Fidelity a few years back because of the inflexible way they handled non-funds, their awful way of charging fees per month rather than quarter, and taking fees by selling holdings rather than from income (among other things)

We have Fidelity SIPPs and don't recognise this comment. If income has added to the cash balance they would use that before selling down holdings (they have never sold ours down) but obviously if there is insufficient cash leading up to the fees being charged there would have to be a "point of no return" on which they started selling down holdings to ensure there is sufficient cash in the account to pay fees. It sounds like you might have been trying to run the account with an insufficient cash float to cover the fees? Seems a shame to rule them out because of that as they can be very good value in the right circumstances. With quarterly divi reinvestment on a static lump sum ETF ours are costing £51 pa each.

One of the things that puts me off the II SIPP (in addition to the much higher charges for our near comatose usage pattern) is that 50% of the total ongoing charge (the non-SIPP charge covering ISAs etc) cannot deducted from within the SIPP account with associated tax benefits. We wouldn't get any benefit from the other inclusive account types as it would be too much money in one provider as the SIPP accounts are already many times over the FSCS limits.

I had an ISA, rather th a SIPP, set to pay out income. Fidelity would pay out the income, then take fees by selling my largest holding, as there was zero cash balance. As it was an ISA, i could not add cash, even if i had wanted to. Twelve x fees, plus twelve x forced 'sells' per year, multiplied by the number of accounts i had with them got a bit wearing to track....
Aj Bell, once per quarter, deduct fees from income, and are prepared to wait for next divi if  no cash balance.

Hargreaves Lansdown will take ISA fees from your fund and share account and not the ISA - even better.

The original requirement was for the payment to be made from untaxed money in a SIPP, which ii will only do if you only have a SIPP account.  II's preference is for a direct debit payment.  If you don't set up a direct debit they will take the money from your trading account, followed by your ISA but they will not take the money from your SIPP unless you only have a SIPP account, which is an odd restriction.

It also seems odd, as when I first opened a SIPP account with II, they required me to open a trading account - which I have only ever used twice to transfer money across from the ISA (once it had been transferred) to the SIPP, because there was apparently no way to do it directly.