Is Dismissal Fair?

James_Noble_Bolton

Hi all, I wanted to jump in.
I read page one and skipped the next few comments. I just wanted to ask if the responses in page one are based purely on the opinion of the poster, or if they are legal arguments? 

My reading of the dismissal and disciplinary laws are that all employees should be treated fairly (or equally) including, in the acas guidance, by using past cases within the same company for a measuring tool of how to handle a case. This means of one employee gets sacked for one offence, then the next employee should probably expect the same outcome to be considered fair. If one employee gets a written warning, but the next one gets sacked, then it may be grounds for unfair dismissal. 

Regards

James Noble

unlikelyheroine

This seems a pretty long thread for someone who is asking whether it is fair for their employer to elect to dismiss them for a criminal offence that took place using work property, and perhaps was even committed on work time... wow.

lincroft1710

James_Noble_Bolton said:

My reading of the dismissal and disciplinary laws are that all employees should be treated fairly (or equally) including, in the acas guidance, by using past cases within the same company for a measuring tool of how to handle a case. This means of one employee gets sacked for one offence, then the next employee should probably expect the same outcome to be considered fair. If one employee gets a written warning, but the next one gets sacked, then it may be grounds for unfair dismissal. 

There may be good reason for dismissing the first offender and not dismissing the second and vice versa which would not make the dismissals unfair.

A_Lert

When you were speeding while driving for work, were you under pressure to meet deadlines and timings that felt infeasible to meet without speeding? And if so, can you provide evidence of that? That might strengthen an unfair dismissal case.

Thrugelmir

A_Lert said:

When you were speeding while driving for work, were you under pressure to meet deadlines and timings that felt infeasible to meet without speeding? And if so, can you provide evidence of that? That might strengthen an unfair dismissal case.

There's much detail of which we are not aware. 

Sncjw

A_Lert said:

When you were speeding while driving for work, were you under pressure to meet deadlines and timings that felt infeasible to meet without speeding? And if so, can you provide evidence of that? That might strengthen an unfair dismissal case.

That is no excuse to break the law or everyone would use that. 

bobthelog

Hi, I haven't read the other comments.

This sounds incredibly unfair to me personally. You expect a firm to have your back and treat you as a team member? That's why you work for them? However, it seems increasingly to me that firms don't do this.

I am assuming you didn't speed or hurt anyone while you drove the car illegally. So then, what's it to them? Gross misconduct is as you would think, swearing at your boss, being violent in the office, stealing money from the till. You just made a mistake.

Firstly I would check your employment contract/employee code of conduct and assuming it does not specifically say that gross misconduct includes driving while you're supposed to then I would definitely take this further. 

You may find this webpage useful - it's about writing a letter to dismiss someone for gross misconduct, but scroll and down and you will see what they should do: https://www.rocketlawyer.com/gb/en/documents/gross-misconduct-dismissal-letter 

There is lots on the web so good luck with it all. I know it's not easy as lil ole you against a company, but I am doing the same and it's not working out so bad.

TBagpuss

bobthelog said:

Hi, I haven't read the other comments.

This sounds incredibly unfair to me personally. You expect a firm to have your back and treat you as a team member? That's why you work for them? However, it seems increasingly to me that firms don't do this.

I am assuming you didn't speed or hurt anyone while you drove the car illegally. So then, what's it to them? Gross misconduct is as you would think, swearing at your boss, being violent in the office, stealing money from the till. You just made a mistake.

Firstly I would check your employment contract/employee code of conduct and assuming it does not specifically say that gross misconduct includes driving while you're supposed to then I would definitely take this further. 

You may find this webpage useful - it's about writing a letter to dismiss someone for gross misconduct, but scroll and down and you will see what they should do: https://www.rocketlawyer.com/gb/en/documents/gross-misconduct-dismissal-letter 

There is lots on the web so good luck with it all. I know it's not easy as lil ole you against a company, but I am doing the same and it's not working out so bad.

I'm curious about what, specifically, you think was unfair?  OP used company property to commit a criminal offence, even of he was previously seen s a team player, that's a pretty major violation of trust and good faith on his part, why would you think the company should have his back when he clearly didn't have theirs? 

OP was convicted of a criminal offence, which related to his mis-using company property. It's not a minor thing.
In addition, it is not necessary for the company's code of conduct to set out all possible types of gross misconduct - an employer doesn't have to try to guess what all the possible things are which employees might do, and the fact that a specific offence is not explicitly listed would not mean that the disciplinary action was unfair or  inappropriate.

Thrugelmir

bobthelog said:

I am assuming you didn't speed or hurt anyone while you drove the car illegally. So then, what's it to them? 

Them are the individual's employers. That's what. 

KatrinaWaves

TBagpuss said:

bobthelog said:

Hi, I haven't read the other comments.

This sounds incredibly unfair to me personally. You expect a firm to have your back and treat you as a team member? That's why you work for them? However, it seems increasingly to me that firms don't do this.

I am assuming you didn't speed or hurt anyone while you drove the car illegally. So then, what's it to them? Gross misconduct is as you would think, swearing at your boss, being violent in the office, stealing money from the till. You just made a mistake.

Firstly I would check your employment contract/employee code of conduct and assuming it does not specifically say that gross misconduct includes driving while you're supposed to then I would definitely take this further. 

You may find this webpage useful - it's about writing a letter to dismiss someone for gross misconduct, but scroll and down and you will see what they should do: https://www.rocketlawyer.com/gb/en/documents/gross-misconduct-dismissal-letter 

There is lots on the web so good luck with it all. I know it's not easy as lil ole you against a company, but I am doing the same and it's not working out so bad.

I'm curious about what, specifically, you think was unfair?  OP used company property to commit a criminal offence, even of he was previously seen s a team player, that's a pretty major violation of trust and good faith on his part, why would you think the company should have his back when he clearly didn't have theirs? 

OP was convicted of a criminal offence, which related to his mis-using company property. It's not a minor thing.
In addition, it is not necessary for the company's code of conduct to set out all possible types of gross misconduct - an employer doesn't have to try to guess what all the possible things are which employees might do, and the fact that a specific offence is not explicitly listed would not mean that the disciplinary action was unfair or  inappropriate.

Bobthelog had a bee in their bonnet because they were told the truth in their post (which a judge has now miraculously overturned even during these pandemic times!)

so now they’ve decided no one can ever be dismissed by their employer under any circumstances and everything is inherently incorrect on here.