Civil service questions

2020sombre

can you apply for internal jobs during probation period? Daughter is on external FTA 

Emmia

2020sombre said:

can you apply for internal jobs during probation period? Daughter is on external FTA 

Not usually - your daughter won't be appointed as a civil servant so she won't be eligible for the internal vacancies.

Someone on their 9 month probation (pre confirmation) also won't be eligible.

AndrewXII

rookie91 said:

Emmia said:

AndrewXII said:

I think both are the same grade. He left his job so to work for B. If he does not take job B now, he will end up having no job for unknown amount of time until he is cleared by A, or no job for longer time if A is not cleared. 

In which case he should take job B and reject A.

If he tries to move between them, then as it is a level transfer he could be blocked from taking job A anyway.

Manager can only block a level move within the same department. If it was me, I'd start job B and wait for my SC clearance and start date for Job A. Once I'd received that, I'd inform my manager who can't stop me from moving to another government department. Even if my manager at job B tried to object and stop me, they cannot stop me resigning and then taking up the offer from the OGD. Especially considering the other job A has been advertised externally.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I just learned that job A the friend prefers is on a fixed term, though likely to be extended to permanent at the end of term. Job B he is offered is permanent from the start. Would this make any difference to his mobility afterwards if he takes job B? He is confused about if he takes job B, would moving to A later become a loan instead of level transfer and hence can be blocked (or can it still be a transfer)? Would there be any negative impact on his record if he happened to resign from one dept then took up a role from another dept? Thank you. 

rookie91

@AndrewXII

If your friend wants a loan move to another department (job A) after they take up the offer of job B, they will need this signed off by their manager's manager in their home department (job B ). Never say never but I think that is unlikely.

Floop

If you’re an FTA you can apply for internal/across govt roles once you have done your 6 months probation. Many people do this as a means to getting a permanent post. 

Civil Sevice probation is usually 6 months, not 9. Longer than 6 months is the exception and not the rule. 

Level Transfers between govt departments can actually be blocked in some circumstances. It’s unusual, but I have known it happen, and quite recently too. The only way to ensure you can’t be blocked is to go on promotion. 

If you are on probation moving around is usually a closed door. Some depts will allow it internally and you complete your probation in the new role. Some depts won’t take on civil servants from other depts who are on probation whether it was advertised externally or not. 

I’d be surprised if anyone agreed a loan for a new entrant on probation to go to another dept, even if it is possible (depending on the home department’s policies). You’re always advised to speak to your manager first before even applying for a loan to be sure you can/will be released. Again, I’ve known people be blocked. 

If your friend wants to start B and move to A if he gets SC he can probably do that, it does happen (even if it’s incredibly annoying for . The best approach is just to be honest with B when the offer A is firm and he has SC. 

Emmia

Floop said:

Civil Sevice probation is usually 6 months, not 9. Longer than 6 months is the exception and not the rule. 

As someone who has hired a few external people in the last few years, I've only been asked to "confirm" people as Civil Servants at 9 months, never at 6. If people don't get confirmed at 9 months, there is a further 12 month point - if they fail that too, then I think they're out the door.  The policy might vary between departments though.

I've only not confirmed 1 person at 9 months who then got appointed by someone else (I'd moved jobs in between) but the individual left 
the Civil Service shortly after, under something of a cloud. 

AndrewXII

Thanks very much for all your advice!

Just to check that if scenario "Some depts won’t take on civil servants from other depts who are on probation whether it was advertised externally or not." happens, would my friend always have the option of resigning from job B, then take job A and rejoin the civil service? My guess is in this route he'd join A as a new entrant and restart probation, though he should be able to claim continuous service for the period he worked for B, is this correct? Thanks! 

AndrewXII

rookie91 Thank you! The friend said he does not want a loan. He is confused though, if he moves from a permanent role (job B ) to a fixed term role (job A), would it be considered as loan only? Also do you have advice on my post above? 

Emmia

AndrewXII said:

Thanks very much for all your advice!

Just to check that if scenario "Some depts won’t take on civil servants from other depts who are on probation whether it was advertised externally or not." happens, would my friend always have the option of resigning from job B, then take job A and rejoin the civil service? My guess is in this route he'd join A as a new entrant and restart probation, though he should be able to claim continuous service for the period he worked for B, is this correct? Thanks! 

What does he (you, clearly) want to claim "continuous service" for or in relation to? 

To be honest if he starts job B and has to resign to take job A, I'm not sure that would be counted as continuous service - but the difference between having it or not may be only be a few weeks.