Mortgage Lending Disgrace - Very Unfair!

warby68

Is there some other complexity here too that prevented you taking a retention deal from the existing lender?
You said its a simple remortgage but also that its the childhood home of 42 years and at risk of being lost. I wondered whether you were buying or had bought from parents and the existence of other occupiers/owners were adding issues.
Surely it wouldn't be at risk if it was just your own deal coming to an end.

ACG

haras_n0sirrah said:

csgohan4 said:

haras_n0sirrah said:

csgohan4 said:

OP your broker is a disgrace, sending you to a lender with your credit history
You cannot force a lender to lend money to you, their money their rules, which sadly your broker is clueless about

If the broker knew about the previous decline and the former credit issues with Natwest then they should have known the op is effectively black listed from Natwest due to the previous credit issues and this was a pretty poor show - Natwest is a lender who very much ascribe to 'once bitten twice shy'
If the op did not tell the broker this then that is different. Not everyone has attempted a self employed natwest case post covid before - those of us who have know that you do not put a self employed case with natwest unless there has been no drop in income post covid and no self employed grants applied for and taken. I tried a self employed case with Natwest - never ever ever again but I gave up once it was clear it would be going nowhere. To try for 5 months and not go elsewhere is pretty poor regardless

surely a fact find would tease this out and asked have you 'Ever' had defaults or CCJ's and which lender. 

A lot of people only declare things within the last 6 years as that is all that shows on a credit report. 
I had someone a few days ago say they had no adverse. Checked the credit report and had an active ccj from feb 19, 2 defaults and a run of 6 missed payments within the last 12 months. This is why I always get a credit report upfront however I wouldn't know about stuff over 6 years ago unless it was declared to me.

This is why on our fee agreement we now put if you withhold material information and that comes back to bite us and we all waste our time (worded slightly better than that), we charge an admin fee of £250... It is underlined, in bold and I explain to people to give us the good the bad and the ugly otherwise they are on the hook for £250. We went through a 2-3 month stage where people were just lying about things for no real reason and if they had been honest they would have got their offer a lot quicker as we would have gone to the lender who suited their circumstances.

I never want to charge that fee, but I also do not want to waste my time. It seems to have cut it out, it has been our terms for 5 years now and I do not think we have had that problem since. 

dunstonh

csgohan4 said:

haras_n0sirrah said:

csgohan4 said:

OP your broker is a disgrace, sending you to a lender with your credit history
You cannot force a lender to lend money to you, their money their rules, which sadly your broker is clueless about

If the broker knew about the previous decline and the former credit issues with Natwest then they should have known the op is effectively black listed from Natwest due to the previous credit issues and this was a pretty poor show - Natwest is a lender who very much ascribe to 'once bitten twice shy'
If the op did not tell the broker this then that is different. Not everyone has attempted a self employed natwest case post covid before - those of us who have know that you do not put a self employed case with natwest unless there has been no drop in income post covid and no self employed grants applied for and taken. I tried a self employed case with Natwest - never ever ever again but I gave up once it was clear it would be going nowhere. To try for 5 months and not go elsewhere is pretty poor regardless

surely a fact find would tease this out and asked have you 'Ever' had defaults or CCJ's and which lender. 

The OP has avoided answering that question.  
If the mortgage broker was told then the mortgage broker would know not to use Natwest.  If the mortgage broker didn't know then they would not know to use Natwest.    
Our factind asks the questions but people dont always tell you the truth.  Either because they feel it is not relevant or they are embarrassed. 

 I will be complianing to the financial Obudsmen about them,

The decision of whether to lend or reject is with the lender. The FOS does not intervene in commercial decisions unless it is discrimination.    They have a clear and valid reason to reject lending you money. Not discrimination.

hopeofahome

Raffi2020 said:

I'm not sure how far a complaint to the ombusdman would go. I do get the anger and frustration but you're better off putting your energy into finding a lender who is likely to lend to you.

As others have said above (and you said yourself in your first post) - it's the lender's money and they set the rules and criteria. Those rules and criteria can and do change pretty much arbitrarily as the lender sees fit. There are lots of people wanting a mortgage in what is a very uncertain time, meaning lenders can basically cherry pick their customers from a large pool of prospective applications, and so most don't have to or don't want to take much risk. That's not a dereliction of duty because no duty is owed. 

It's annoying how sometimes these things can drag on for weeks and months until they finally spot a problem you'd have thought they'd have seen instantly, but that's how it is I guess. Lockdown, working from home, computer errors, high levels of applications - everybody is stretched this year. 

I think a complaint is just going to be another thing to worry about that almost certainly will go nowhere. I'd have a frank conversation with your broker and find a lender likely to give you what you want, and deal with that first.

Thank you for your positive post.
Yes thats exactly what I intend to do, I will be trying various options next week and will put in a few applications with different lenders - the first one back gets my business!

The reason why I will still be complaining about Natwest is that they have not acted in a professional manner, THEY ACCEPTED ME with AIP based on all the info I gave them (nothing has changed in my circumstances since) It would have been fairer to reject me months ago if thats their intention then I could have at least moved onto another lender, but to drag things out this long with no decision either way is appalling and they need to be held accountable. Ironically my current mortgage deal has just expired to the default rate, so I am now paying £1200 a month mortgage whilst they dilly dally around to see decide if i can afford £600 a month.
Soul destroying!

Thrugelmir

hopeofahome said:

Raffi2020 said:

I'm not sure how far a complaint to the ombusdman would go. I do get the anger and frustration but you're better off putting your energy into finding a lender who is likely to lend to you.

As others have said above (and you said yourself in your first post) - it's the lender's money and they set the rules and criteria. Those rules and criteria can and do change pretty much arbitrarily as the lender sees fit. There are lots of people wanting a mortgage in what is a very uncertain time, meaning lenders can basically cherry pick their customers from a large pool of prospective applications, and so most don't have to or don't want to take much risk. That's not a dereliction of duty because no duty is owed. 

It's annoying how sometimes these things can drag on for weeks and months until they finally spot a problem you'd have thought they'd have seen instantly, but that's how it is I guess. Lockdown, working from home, computer errors, high levels of applications - everybody is stretched this year. 

I think a complaint is just going to be another thing to worry about that almost certainly will go nowhere. I'd have a frank conversation with your broker and find a lender likely to give you what you want, and deal with that first.

Thank you for your positive post.
Yes thats exactly what I intend to do, I will be trying various options next week and will put in a few applications with different lenders - the first one back gets my business!

The reason why I will still be complaining about Natwest is that they have not acted in a professional manner, THEY ACCEPTED ME with AIP based on all the info I gave them (nothing has changed in my circumstances since) It would have been fairer to reject me months ago if thats their intention then I could have at least moved onto another lender, but to drag things out this long with no decision either way is appalling and they need to be held accountable. Ironically my current mortgage deal has just expired to the default rate, so I am now paying £1200 a month mortgage whilst they dilly dally around to see decide if i can afford £600 a month.
Soul destroying!

An Agreement in Principle is nowhere near a mortgage offer . Until a full mortgage application is made will the full process of due diligence be undertaken. 

hopeofahome

Thrugelmir said:

hopeofahome said:

Raffi2020 said:

I'm not sure how far a complaint to the ombusdman would go. I do get the anger and frustration but you're better off putting your energy into finding a lender who is likely to lend to you.

As others have said above (and you said yourself in your first post) - it's the lender's money and they set the rules and criteria. Those rules and criteria can and do change pretty much arbitrarily as the lender sees fit. There are lots of people wanting a mortgage in what is a very uncertain time, meaning lenders can basically cherry pick their customers from a large pool of prospective applications, and so most don't have to or don't want to take much risk. That's not a dereliction of duty because no duty is owed. 

It's annoying how sometimes these things can drag on for weeks and months until they finally spot a problem you'd have thought they'd have seen instantly, but that's how it is I guess. Lockdown, working from home, computer errors, high levels of applications - everybody is stretched this year. 

I think a complaint is just going to be another thing to worry about that almost certainly will go nowhere. I'd have a frank conversation with your broker and find a lender likely to give you what you want, and deal with that first.

Thank you for your positive post.
Yes thats exactly what I intend to do, I will be trying various options next week and will put in a few applications with different lenders - the first one back gets my business!

The reason why I will still be complaining about Natwest is that they have not acted in a professional manner, THEY ACCEPTED ME with AIP based on all the info I gave them (nothing has changed in my circumstances since) It would have been fairer to reject me months ago if thats their intention then I could have at least moved onto another lender, but to drag things out this long with no decision either way is appalling and they need to be held accountable. Ironically my current mortgage deal has just expired to the default rate, so I am now paying £1200 a month mortgage whilst they dilly dally around to see decide if i can afford £600 a month.
Soul destroying!

An Agreement in Principle is nowhere near a mortgage offer . Until a full mortgage application is made will the full process of due diligence be undertaken. 

Read again.

dunstonh

The reason why I will still be complaining about Natwest is that they have not acted in a professional manner, THEY ACCEPTED ME with AIP based on all the info I gave them (nothing has changed in my circumstances since)

An AIP is a decision based on limited information and does not hold them to it.   It is usually presented along the lines of "if we were making the decision today, on current criteria and no new information comes to light, we would lend you £x".

They to not carry out checks on whether the information you have supplied at that date is correct or complete.

Did you notify your mortgage broker of the default with Natwest group?

ACG

hopeofahome said:

THEY ACCEPTED ME with AIP based on all the info I gave them

This is the sentence. 

They did not accept you, they gave you an agreement in principle. In principle...subject to a full application and doing further checks. An AIP is a computer making an initial decision, nobody touches your application at natwest until it is fully submitted and their basic document requirements have been uploaded. 

hopeofahome

dunstonh said:

The reason why I will still be complaining about Natwest is that they have not acted in a professional manner, THEY ACCEPTED ME with AIP based on all the info I gave them (nothing has changed in my circumstances since)

An AIP is a decision based on limited information and does not hold them to it.   It is usually presented along the lines of "if we were making the decision today, on current criteria and no new information comes to light, we would lend you £x".

They to not carry out checks on whether the information you have supplied at that date is correct or complete.

Did you notify your mortgage broker of the default with Natwest group?

This is exactly what I thought,...nothing has changed in my circumstances and no new information has come to light. Everything is legitimate, yes I informed Broker of everything. So if Natwest were to potentially refuse me at this point 4 months after AIP it would be for no valid reason

spoovy

It seems like new information did come to light, presumably your prior bad debt, so they refused you. This is just how the process works isn't it? 
Your only real complaint seems to be that their IT systems are not perfect and didn't detect your bad debt as part of the AIP checks.